Leica M2 + LTM lens

[xasthur]

Hello everyone!

So I finally got my dream camera the M2 but per my luck with things it's got problems which I was not aware of.

Please note that I bought this camera with mindset of it was working perfectly because the owner said it was CLA'd 3 months prior.

The main maybe issue/question is I have a after market adapter that I'm using for it with my 35mm 3.5 Elmar LTM lens. Reason is I got it for free so why not give it a go. The weird thing seems to be when I focus the lens to about 1,75 meters the rangefinder doesn't seem to focus any closer. It's like a dead zone with anything under 1,75 meters. Is this normal? with the LTM lens? Could it be the adapter? Below I have a picture of the adapter. I have pictures of the adapter below.

Also, a bigger problem appears when I use a shutter speed above 1/125 of a second. Basically what happens on the shutter speeds is what I believe is "capping" when I release the shutter there's no exposure through the curtains and I end up with black images which leaves me to believe the curtains aren't adjusted correctly and the timing is off. Does that make sense to anyone? Also note that all the slower speeds are perfectly fine.

With that being said I do have the proper tools to take the bottom plate off and to make curtain adjustments if anyone has advice or have done this themselves. I'm fairly confident in my fixing abilities as I've been buying broken cameras and fixing them for over a year now.

Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/uktFqq8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YlfKKvO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7wSmT8D.jpg
https://imgur.com/pdZJyL5
https://imgur.com/XgGEhWP
https://imgur.com/41llHlU
https://imgur.com/WU78npW
https://imgur.com/AuH4tYt

 

[xasthur]

Also I took the bottom plate off to have a look since that wouldn't harm anything and there was a random small spring just sitting under the plate.. The camera still works the same way so I definitely didn't cause the random spring to come loose where ever it came from.

Anyways I could use a little sowing machine oil to lubricate the shutter gears yeah? I ask this because the gears look dry and I see a tiny bit of old lube.

 

[Beemermark]

Have you shot a roll of film through it?

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hello everyone!

So I finally got my dream camera the M2 but per my luck with things it's got problems which I was not aware of.

Please note that I bought this camera with mindset of it was working perfectly because the owner said it was CLA'd 3 months prior.

The main maybe issue/question is I have a after market adapter that I'm using for it with my 35mm 3.5 Elmar LTM lens. Reason is I got it for free so why not give it a go. The weird thing seems to be when I focus the lens to about 1,75 meters the rangefinder doesn't seem to focus any closer. It's like a dead zone with anything under 1,75 meters. Is this normal? with the LTM lens? Could it be the adapter? Below I have a picture of the adapter. I have pictures of the adapter below.

Also, a bigger problem appears when I use a shutter speed above 1/125 of a second. Basically what happens on the shutter speeds is what I believe is "capping" when I release the shutter there's no exposure through the curtains and I end up with black images which leaves me to believe the curtains aren't adjusted correctly and the timing is off. Does that make sense to anyone? Also note that all the slower speeds are perfectly fine.

With that being said I do have the proper tools to take the bottom plate off and to make curtain adjustments if anyone has advice or have done this themselves. I'm fairly confident in my fixing abilities as I've been buying broken cameras and fixing them for over a year now.

Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/uktFqq8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YlfKKvO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7wSmT8D.jpg
https://imgur.com/pdZJyL5
https://imgur.com/XgGEhWP
https://imgur.com/41llHlU
https://imgur.com/WU78npW
https://imgur.com/AuH4tYt

A focal plane shutter that's tapering slightly at 1/1000 and perhaps 1/500 may be a candidate for a simple fine tuning of curtain spring tension. If you're getting no exposure at all down to 1/125 it's more than that and will need at a minimum cleaning and adjustment of the mechanism, possibly other items also.

Sewing machine oil tends to run a lot, the viscosity may not be awful but ability to remain where applied and to not contaminate internal components is rather ordinary, I wouldn't expect any short cuts with this shutter, it will need a proper service and adjustment by someone who understands what ails it.

 

[xasthur]

Have you shot a roll of film through it?

Yes, 2 rolls. first one came out fine because it was a cloudy day where I live and I was shooting at 1/125 of a second. When the sun came out briefly is when I bumped it up to 1/250 1/500 and 1/1000 which those frames are black. Later in the day when I had my negatives back is when I checked all of the speeds and noticed 1/250 1/500 1/1000 of a second showed no light through curtains when fired.

 

[xasthur]

A focal plane shutter that's tapering slightly at 1/1000 and perhaps 1/500 may be a candidate for a simple fine tuning of curtain spring tension. If you're getting no exposure at all down to 1/125 it's more than that and will need at a minimum cleaning and adjustment of the mechanism, possibly other items also.

Sewing machine oil tends to run a lot, the viscosity may not be awful but ability to remain where applied and to not contaminate internal components is rather ordinary, I wouldn't expect any short cuts with this shutter, it will need a proper service and adjustment by someone who understands what ails it.

Is there a recommended lubricant used which I have give a go before dishing out more money sending it somewhere?

 

[Jerevan]

The no-name ltm adapters can vary in quality, the one that I once had caused me a bunch of problems. I prefer the original Leica or the Voigtländer ones.

As for the shutter, I would try to get a partial refund since it is not as advertised. I would send it off for another round of cleaning. Unless you love to tinker, have time on your hands and get the right tools and lubricants. 🙂

 

[Peter Jennings]

#1 You were sold something that isn't what it was presented to be. A recently CLAd M2 should not have any shutter issues. If I were you, I would return it for a refund. Failing that, try to get a partial refund to cover having it serviced by a professional.

#2 LTM lenses do not focus as close as M lenses. That is normal due to the differing designs of the mounts.

 

[Sumarongi]

Please note that I bought this camera with mindset of it was working perfectly because the owner said it was CLA'd 3 months prior.

Then apparently the previous owner was lying, or the CLA guys were incompetent.

Is there a recommended lubricant used which I have give a go before dishing out more money sending it somewhere?

Send it back to the seller, I recommend.

 

[xasthur]

What a shame this is, I bought it at a camera show here in LA. Luckily I have the contact of the seller. He gave me the number and the name of the shop who did the CLA for it so I will call them tomorrow. If they offer to go over it again for free then I will do that.

If not I will tell the seller to give me a refund or give me the money back for the CLA if the store wants to charge me. We'll see what happens. This stinks

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Is there a recommended lubricant used which I have give a go before dishing out more money sending it somewhere?

Sure, there are a few very good options. But I'm not going to pass on any information about these to you. Why would I? YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME. It's not as simple as adding some oil to the mechanism. Now go and read my post again, properly, this time. We're done. 😡

 

[xasthur]

Sure, there are a few very good options. But I'm not going to pass on any information about these to you. Why would I? YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME. It's not as simple as adding some oil to the mechanism. Now go and read my post again, properly, this time. We're done. 😡

hehe fair enough, I appreciate you saving me from further pain.

 

[Sumarongi]

What a shame this is, I bought it at a camera show here in LA. Luckily I have the contact of the seller. He gave me the number and the name of the shop who did the CLA for it so I will call them tomorrow. If they offer to go over it again for free then I will do that.

If not I will tell the seller to give me a refund or give me the money back for the CLA if the store wants to charge me. We'll see what happens. This stinks

Well, you're hoping that their obviously cr*ppy CLA will be better the second time? 🙄

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

About that adapter, the flange should be 1mm thick and I hope that doesn't add to your worries.

And the seller my have been the first one that was conned about the CLA.

Regards, David

 

[Muju79]

About the shutter.
Send the M2 back while you still can. Buy in person if possible next time after learning about what to look for when buying a RF camera. Avoid buying M bodies online unless you're reasonably sure about the source (this forum is a good place for that) or you're 100% sure that you can send it back in case it's not as described. If you can't send it back I can see a CLA in your near future.

About the focusing issue.
Provided you've got the right adapter and the lens has no issues, your Summaron 3.5 should focus down to 1 meter. While quality of LTM adapters can vary, I've never heard of a LTM adapter so bad that it can't focus down to 1 meter. Something is really wrong either with the lens or with the RF.

Good luck, sounds like you'll need some!

 

[xasthur]

I did buy it in person, i checked all the lower speeds but not the high ones because those are usually okay. My mistake obviously and will from now on check every single thing.

I have a old Elmar LTM, not a Summaron. Also I will say that when i put on a new lens which the seller let me try on so i could check the rf patch it seemed to focus fine so im assuming it's either the lens being old or the adapter. I have nothing which can measure of thickness of it.

So tomorrow I'm going to ask for my money back and then hopefully find another one which works properly. I just figured since he said it was CLA'd i was good to go.

It's very true that he might not of known the problems existed as he is a well known camera vender at the monthly camera show that we have here in CA. So I've seen and talked to this man a few times but never bought anything from him until now. We will see tomorrow and I will post back here with what happens.

 

[Muju79]

Gotcha, sorry for the Elmar/Summaron mistake but regardless, the old Elmar has the same minimum focus distance.
In all honesty I don't believe the "recent CLA" fairy tale anymore unless a receipt is made available...I don't know this seller but agree with others here that no M body recently CLA'd should manifest these issues. Hope you can get your money back!
All the best.

I did buy it in person, i checked all the lower speeds but not the high ones because those are usually okay. My mistake obviously and will from now on check every single thing.

I have a old Elmar LTM, not a Summaron. Also I will say that when i put on a new lens which the seller let me try on so i could check the rf patch it seemed to focus fine so im assuming it's either the lens being old or the adapter. I have nothing which can measure of thickness of it.

So tomorrow I'm going to ask for my money back and then hopefully find another one which works properly. I just figured since he said it was CLA'd i was good to go.

It's very true that he might not of known the problems existed as he is a well known camera vender at the monthly camera show that we have here in CA. So I've seen and talked to this man a few times but never bought anything from him until now. We will see tomorrow and I will post back here with what happens.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Is the lens at the infinity position in this photo? If so, it doesn't look like the lens is fully screwed in to the adapter. That would certainly mess up the minimum focus distance indicated by the rangefinder.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I did buy it in person, i checked all the lower speeds but not the high ones because those are usually okay.

No, on old M cameras usually the high speeds are problematic.

The slow speeds are totally unimportant as they are never used.

Erik.

 

[xasthur]

Yes that's at infinity. I made a post a while ago about M2 and the adapters for LTM lenses and in that post pictures were provided. Now comparing the images in that post from Erik Van Straten and David Hughes it appears that it's most likely my adapter. I have a link to their images below.

If you compare the theirs to mine I can clearly see a difference where the infinity stop screw sits. The thing with my adapter is I can't screw it on there any further so it's likely just a crap adapter.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Leica-Screw-to-Bayonet-Adapters/i-56nxgWv/0/2e5a2b67/XL/Adapter%203-XL.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1927/44169625924_f46baf1f32_z.jpg

Is the lens at the infinity position in this photo? If so, it doesn't look like the lens is fully screwed in to the adapter. That would certainly mess up the minimum focus distance indicated by the rangefinder.