Leica M2 or Minolta CLE as a 1st film camera

[mcfingon]

I recommend the M2 as your first film camera. It is such a classic to use. It will give you the pleasure in use from using a well-designed, simple but sophisticated film camera. I have owned a Cl and an M2. I sold the CL, but passed the M2 on to my son so he could have that traditional rangefinder experience when I bought an M6.
John Mc

 

[twotroy]

Wow - I really appreciate everyone's feedback here. I'm leaning more towards the M2 as a result of the many reasons described here. As great as the CLE sounds - I'm a little bit hesitant on getting it purely because of its electronics albeit that might not be a major issue. I might also consider swapping out my 28mm summicron for a 35mm if I do go with the m2.

Would love to jump into M6 but it's beyond my price range at the moment.

 

[Fraser]

I know its not on your list but maybe if you are patient and have a good look an M4p could be within budget as it has the 28mm framelines if not you can't go wrong with the M2.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

M2. you'll need an external VF for that 28mm.

You really don’t... The full M2 viewfinder is a very close approximation for 28mm. I use a VM 28mm Ultron extensively on mine, own the Voigtlander brightline finder, and never use it because the lens works so well with the built in VF.

 

[Mute-on]

M2. The simplest and best made Leica M film camera IMHO.

I’m sure à CLÉ is fun to use, but I wouldn’t get one before an M2 (or MP, M4, M6). Anyway, it’s a Minolta 😉

 

[leicapixie]

The CL and CLE are not reliable cameras..
I care not about those using and loving them.
There are those using Praktisix 6x6 that are happy..sigh
Get the M2 but they are old..as is mine.
Get a M6 due to being "younger".

 

[Rob-F]

The CLE might be a good second camera after the M2. But I'd rather use my M2 as a "first" camera.

 

[splitimageview]

Every camera can fail at one point or another, requiring repair. This doesn't mean they aren't reliable.

Pick the features you prefer, and go with that. The assumption is that neither the M2 nor the CLE have been abused, and are in full working order.

 

[Guth]

I own a Minolta XD-11 from the same era as the CLE. Both cameras came about as part of the collaborative efforts between Minolta and Leica at that point in time. The XD-11 is a great camera, but I did have issues with the metering system long ago (repaired at that time). I wouldn't mind owning a CLE but not at the prices they command these days.

If you plan to keep shooting with the 28mm lens then I could see the benefits of the CLE. I myself can't imagine not having a 35mm lens as an option and in that case the M2 seems like a likely choice (although not for me as I do have a preference for built-in metering). I can definitely understand and appreciate why so many are drawn to the all mechanical M2. Whatever you decide I hope that the outcome is a positive one for you. Good luck!

 

[Steve M.]

Yep, these sort of things are relative. My first real film camera was a Canon AE-1 w/ the usual FD 50 1.8 lens. Paid $13.50 for it in a Savannah thrift store about 30 years ago. I have prints on the wall that look great, so it's not about the gear. If you can. see if you can find a way to hold both cameras and look thru the viewfinders. One camera is big and heavy w/ a big viewfinder, and the other is tiny and light w/ a much smaller viewfinder. Myself, if these are two cameras you are focused on, I would get a Leica/Minolta CL. Same small size, cheaper, and more reliable (except for the meter, and if you are OK w/ handheld then it doesn't matter). You won't have any trouble focusing the lenses you mentioned w/ either a CL or CLE. Problems might come in w/ a 90 lens, but I never experienced any w/ my CL.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

Repair parts on the Minolta are difficult to come by. M2 is much simpler to repair. But, if you need an external viewfinder for the M2 for the 28mm that will add to the cost. Why not just go for the M6. It is more money, yes, but more readily available in better condition. The M6 has the framelines and the meter. IMHO

 

[twotroy]

Again - thanks everyone for all the great suggestions and feedback which swayed me to go for the M2 at the moment. I decided to get a 1965 model with a rapid film loader - I should have it in my hands within the next 24hrs - hopefully the rangefinder calibration and shutter is accurate. I wear glasses so I might have a disadvantage for seeing the 35mm frame line on the m2 - (this had me consider looking at the Bessa for a moment but didn't like the build quality)

As far as the CLE I certainly prefer the 28mm lens for street photography and the small size + lower cost but also thinking about swapping out for a 35mm lens in the future so I don't have to deal with an external viewfinder.

Hoping to keep the m2 for the long haul....m6 is great but was a bit out of reach for me at the moment in terms of budget.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I've a scan of the label and instructions for the Quick Load, just in case they are missing but a PM might be a good idea in case I forget this post...

Regards, David

 

[twotroy]

Thanks David - I appreciate it. I will PM you once I get it and check it out.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I wear glasses so I might have a disadvantage for seeing the 35mm frame line on the m2 - (this had me consider looking at the Bessa for a moment but didn't like the build quality)

Troy, the M2 was the first Leica I ever bought. The 35mm quickly became my standard view of the world. I also wear glasses & i adapted to the framing just fine. I'm naturally left eye dominant.....but i've shot with and w/out glasses with both eyes, successfully. You'll appreciate the cleanliness of the viewfinder. I've owned & used M6, M4-P and MP and the number of framelines just got in my way. Lately I traded off the MP for a bp M4 and life is visually simple & happy. Best of luck with it.

 

[madNbad]

If you use the entire M2 viewfinder, it will give you fairly accurate framing for your 28. I have worn glasses most of my life and found the M2 viewfinder to be the best. Just get into the habit of letting your eye wander to the corners. Good luck with your M2!

 

[oldwino]

The entire viewfinder on the M2 is pretty close to 28mm. Try it, and see if will work for you. If not, you can always pick up an external VF. I like using mine. Not only does it look cool, but with a 28 at f8, you really don’t need to focus every shot, so you just use the external VF and go! Very quick!

 

[Papercut]

Hoping to keep the m2 for the long haul....m6 is great but was a bit out of reach for me at the moment in terms of budget.

You made the right choice. And honestly, don't fret the M6. I enjoy using my meterless M4 far more than my metered M6. Handheld incident meter or learn to estimate exposure (I use the Exposure Mat: http://expomat.tripod.com ) and, with just a bit of experience, you won't miss the simple M6 meter at all.

 

[Iestrada]

I owned both at the same time.

The CLE was alway a pure joy to use. Specially when doing street photography. Never had an issue with it. Sold it to avoid the risk of electronic failure. I have missed it terribly ever since. I still have the M2 and also love it. From a photographic experience point of view, you can not go wrong with either. But, ( and it is a big but) if you are like most of us here, there is only one way to cure for the longing for an M camera.

If you buy the CLE, don’t be surprised to be adding an M camera to your collection down the road. If you buy the M2, you might end up adding a second M body.

 

[Guth]

This thread lead me to this online article about the Minolta CLE.

Why I chose the Minolta CLE over any Leica M

Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should pick what they want for reasons that matter to them. The key thing that stood out to me in this particular article was that the CLE provides no metering information when shooting in manual mode. Even thought the CLE looks like an awesome little camera, that particular side note would give me pause. (As I noted previously, personally I do enjoy the use of built-in metering.) i don't know that I learn something new every day, but at least I do still pick up some new knowledge every now and then. I had never seen the Casual Photophile website before now. It looks like they have lots of interesting content.