Leica M4 and Flash

[Guy Pinhas]

Not sure where to post this so general interest it is. Mods, feel free to move it to appropriate section if you feel like it.

The city I live in is slowly but surely going back to lockdown. I want to document its emptiness at night.

Normally the ambient light emanating from the stores, cars etc would be sufficient for a fast lens and high ISO but that absence makes it a bit of a daunting task even with a high iso and a fast lens. I don't want to use a tripod.

I have never used a flash, always available light with a fast lens and high iso on the film and go. I am thinking of using a flash on an M4 with an 21mm f3.4. I rather not have it mounted on the shoe as I would need it for the view finder.

Any suggestions?

Thanks everyone!

 

[Nitroplait]

Daunting task. 21mm is not commonly covered by a flash, and finding something for the flash to bounce off will be challenging outside.
I would reconsider the tripod idea. Using flash outside at night as a main source of light will look quite artificial and severely limit your reach - but that may be the look you are after?

 

[bullterrier]

as said if you are really close with the 21 use a diffuser.voigltänder have a double shoe adapter but they are exspensive or you could mount a hot shoe in the bottom plate of the camera,use a flash side bracket or simply hold the flash with one hand and camera in the other.

hoshi haruto make some interesting street photos with flash at night but he also includes some people in them. i

 

[Guy Pinhas]

Daunting task. 21mm is not commonly covered by a flash, and finding something for the flash to bounce off will be challenging outside.
I would reconsider the tripod idea. Using flash outside at night as a main source of light will look quite artificial and severely limit your reach - but that may be the look you are after?

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Do you think going from a 21 to a 35 would make a difference? The only reason why I am saying no tripod is that the idea of carrying one gives me a backache 🙂

 

[Guy Pinhas]

as said if you are really close with the 21 use a diffuser.voigltänder have a double shoe adapter but they are exspensive or you could mount a hot shoe in the bottom plate of the camera,use a flash side bracket or simply hold the flash with one hand and camera in the other.

hoshi haruto make some interesting street photos with flash at night but he also includes some people in them. i

Here's the thing: with a 21mm you kinda have to be close. At least that's how I use it. That said, we are not talking about people rather empty streets.

And yeah, I was thinking of holding the flash with my hand anyways.

 

[froyd]

If you are going very wide, you are likely to experience severe light drop off on the sides and after a certain distance in front of the lens. Personally I like that look, but the pool of light needs to have a strong focus point.

The aesthetics of this style is strong but somewhat limiting in the type of images you'll be able to capture, and personally, I prefer it for people photography, where the light fall-off acts as a three-dimensional vignette.

For flash + VF, you have the option of a 3D printed double shoe accessory, nicer and rarer metal double shoe accessories, and flash brackets. I use one of these.

 

[presspass]

Another plus for the Leica bracket. It is formed to fit the baseplate so it does not move around. Since the M4 does not have a hot shoe, you will have to use a PC cord anyway. Some of the bigger shoe mount Vivitars take a snap in attachment that looks like an inverted Tupperware box. Those flashes, I believe they are the 285HV, also have an available shield that goes over the sensor so the light from the flash does not reflect down on the sensor. That means you can, if you wish, have a 21 finder in the cold shoe and a modified flash mounted on the bracket. You will have to decide if this gives you the look you want.

 

[retinax]

Better to use a tripod for this sort of thing, even if you want to use flash. Beside enabling long exposures that will capture what little ambient light there is, and likely making you consider composition more, it frees your hands and even legs to position the flash, and you can give several flashes during a long exposure to light a wide scene and emphasize some parts of it.

Or you can accept the darkness as part of what you want to show, and get pictures in which only small parts are exposed at all, or with severe motion blur, or very pushed film.

 

[bullterrier]

That said, we are not talking about people rather empty streets.

aha and here I thought we where talking about people🙂

 

[Guy Pinhas]

Thanks everyone for chiming in. Lots of options and time since lockdown will not be over soon and we are getting into the time of year where darkness "reigns". I'll see what's available at reasonable prices on the local used goods sites. I will also check the tripod thing in my street, see if that can be something. Keep 'em coming though, any little bit of info is super welcome!

 

[charjohncarter]

You will need, a bracket as shown above, a flash unit; most now are not with a cable so you will need an hot shoe adapter for the bracket, then you will need a cable from camera PC outlet to the adapter inlet. Now you are ready to go (I've never seen a M4 so I hope it has a PC outlet). Now you will have to get exposure using a flash meter or a guess with the f stop chart on the flash. Be sure to be below or at the maximum synch speed of the M4 (not above that shutter speed).

If you use a tripod you can use a lower shutter speed to achieve ambient light. The 21mm lens will not be covered but still you can get interesting shots:

This with a 20mm:

Kodak Gold 400 expired by John Carter, on Flickr

 

[Rob-F]

I would skip the flash and use instead a technique film makers call "day for night." When the shooting schedule doesn't allow time to wait for nightfall, they shoot in the daytime and fake it with such techniques as using high contrast and underexposure. For black and white, they may use a red filter to create an extreme contrast. A light fixture may be included in the shot, one that wasn't really the true light source for the shot, but appears plausible to the viewer.

You shoot around dusk, when there is still enough light, look for contrasty light, and underexpose a bit. A streetlight that came on early would help to suggest night.

I have a day-for-night color shot I made when we were out camping. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

 

[Guy Pinhas]

You will need, a bracket as shown above, a flash unit; most now are not with a cable so you will need an hot shoe adapter for the bracket, then you will need a cable from camera PC outlet to the adapter inlet. Now you are ready to go (I've never seen a M4 so I hope it has a PC outlet). Now you will have to get exposure using a flash meter or a guess with the f stop chart on the flash. Be sure to be below or at the maximum synch speed of the M4 (not above that shutter speed).

If you use a tripod you can use a lower shutter speed to achieve ambient light. The 21mm lens will not be covered but still you can get interesting shots:

This with a 20mm:

Kodak Gold 400 expired by John Carter, on Flickr

That's actually a lovely shot. Hope she got a nice graduation present 🙂 However I won't be shooting people, the subject is mainly streets and them being empty when normally they would be crowded with folks and cars.

A few months back, during the first lockdown I walked around town around midnight and man it was quiet. I took some pictures with my phone to send to some people and I figured why not make something of it on actual film. But I also wanted to cover the docks and that's where it gets tricky.

 

[Guy Pinhas]

I would skip the flash and use instead a technique film makers call "day for night." When the shooting schedule doesn't allow time to wait for nightfall, they shoot in the daytime and fake it with such techniques as using high contrast and underexposure. For black and white, they may use a red filter to create an extreme contrast. A light fixture may be included in the shot, one that wasn't really the true light source for the shot, but appears plausible to the viewer.

You shoot around dusk, when there is still enough light, look for contrasty light, and underexpose a bit. A streetlight that came on early would help to suggest night.

I have a day-for-night color shot I made when we were out camping. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

Okay, wow, sounds intriguing.

 

[charjohncarter]

Thanks Guy, you can find some object you want to highlight and then use a tripod and a low shutter speed for something dramatic with low ambient light.

 

[Guy Pinhas]

Thanks Guy, you can find some object you want to highlight and then use a tripod and a low shutter speed for something dramatic with low ambient light.

Going to give it a try, hopefully this weekend.

 

[charjohncarter]

Going to give it a try, hopefully this weekend.

When I started doing flash with AG-1 bulbs in the early sixties. I was always nervous about not enough light on the subject or worse too much. It turns out that with digital editing you can retrieve some goofs. Just read the chart on the back of your flash and you will be fine.

Please come back with some of your images. We aren't mean on this forum so don't get the jitters. One rule of flash that you will have to think about is: you are taking two photos; one with the ambient light and one with the flash. The ambient light is shutter speed and aperture and flash is only the aperture. So sit around the home fire and think about that until you get it. After that the rest is easy (whether it is fill light, or normal flash, or 'heaven forbid' [as Thomas a Beckett said to Henry II] beating the sun.

 

[Guy Pinhas]

When I started doing flash with AG-1 bulbs in the early sixties. I was always nervous about not enough light on the subject or worse too much. It turns out that with digital editing you can retrieve some goofs. Just read the chart on the back of your flash and you will be fine.

Please come back with some of your images. We aren't mean on this forum so don't get the jitters. One rule of flash that you will have to think about is: you are taking two photos; one with the ambient light and one with the flash. The ambient light is shutter speed and aperture and flash is only the aperture. So sit around the home fire and think about that until you get it. After that the rest is easy (whether it is fill light, or normal flash, or 'heaven forbid' [as Thomas a Beckett said to Henry II] beating the sun.

Not mean? Hahahahahahaha I beg to differ, I have some serious brawls hahahahahahaah. Kidding aside, I am going to try a few things and as soon as I have some results I am happy with (lighting wise, not image) I will post!