retinax
Well-known
Keep in mind that sold listings are also inaccurate. In the the case of "BIN or make offer" listings, they will always show the BIN price, even if it was sold for a lower offer.
Leica M6 out of sight
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Guth
Appreciative User
Actual sold prices for the M6 TTL have exceeded $3K. At this rate within a year or so prices will be approaching double the cost new back in 2000. I would guess that these cameras will fall out of favor before this happens, or a recession might come along to reset the market overall.
V
Veggies
Guest
And yet you can look at the ones that aren't BIN with Offers and get a very accurate estimate...
retinax
Well-known
Uhmm did you mean to reply to me? I pointed out a detail which many don't seem to be aware of. To interpret that as an argument against looking at sold listings is purely conjecture.
MISH
Well-known
If these new tariffs raise the price of new cameras I would have to think that used prices will go up also. I bought my first used Leica in 1990 and I can't remember any time that the market adjusted itself and prices actually went down.
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Mish,
On one hand the tariffs on new cameras are kind of one sided in that they effect digital bodies more heavily, but I do think you are also right in that the prices of film bodies also get boot-straped/lifted/elevated as the rising prices on say digital Leica M-bodies esculate.
Film more and more is becoming a viable alternative, and following supply and demand, prices will rise due to limited supply even on old film bodies.
Also I might speculate that some of the interest among "True" hipsters (meaning not Vintage Hipsters that are old like myself) is that even the current somewhat new higher prices of film M-bodies are more economical than buying digital.
Perhaps it would be wise to keep film M-bodies, even if one buys into a new digital M-Body.
Seven years ago I bought my MM. I still own and use it, but I also kept my M6. Also own a M3, M4, and MD-2. Glad I still have an arsenal of film cameras including many others.
Cal
james.liam
Well-known
What’s this tariff talk? Aside from the MP and Nikon F6, no new film cameras are being made. I predict that once the fad passes (people shift back to digital for a variety of reasons) and only hard core filmistas remain, prices will come down again. R lens prices went through the roof for a while, now have settled to a steady place. Unique things, like the Hasselblad Panx/Fujifilm TX and Fulifilm GF670 have no options beyond themselves and should continue to rise in value.
Huss
Veteran
Yeah that chart has the current price at just over $1200.
They sell for way more than that now.
giganova
Well-known
Geez, why don't you spend ONE minute and go to the link I posted where I got the data from? Collectiblend has around 30 categories for M6, I posted the plot for "regular" M6 bodies in Very Good condition, no Mint, no Excellent, no specific viewfinder, no collectible editions, etc. You lumped them all together in your link, some even with lenses. 🙄
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
James,
I think one of the reasons for "R" lens increases is video. I don't see this going away. It seems many videographers covet Leica "R" glass. Pretty much they want the "Leica look."
I would say also that film likely could be valued as being more cost effective than digital, and maybe will always be an incentive.
Cal
giganova
Well-known
I agree with Cal, film makers keep Leica glass expensive, and this won't go away.
James: I don't think this "fad", as you call it, will pass anytime soon. With every day life become more & more technological & sophisticated to the point where nobody understand anymore how things work, the desire to go back to "simple things" like film nostalgia is here to stay, if not increasing.
James: I don't think this "fad", as you call it, will pass anytime soon. With every day life become more & more technological & sophisticated to the point where nobody understand anymore how things work, the desire to go back to "simple things" like film nostalgia is here to stay, if not increasing.
Huss
Veteran
Lomo still makes the LC-A series and the 120 version is fantastic.
Skiff
Well-known
There are also the Leica M-A, DW Photo / Rolleiflex Hy6 Mod.2, the Hasselblad H6 with its film back, more than a dozen cameras models from Lomography, the Holga, and countless large format cameras from more than a dozen different LF camera manufacturers.
And countless new pinhole cameras.
And I predict that it is not a fad, but a long term and sustainable revival. Because most people have to sit in front of computer monitors in their jobs all day long. And an increasing number of people don't want to spend also their small / rare leisure time again in front of computer screens. They don't want to be 'digital slaves' who spent almost their whole life with computer tech.
They want relaxing times without computer monitors. Film is offering the wanted alternative.
There is already evidence for that: Instax instant film has permanent increasing demand and sales since 2004 (!!) now. 10 million cameras sold alone in 2018. No digital camera type has such a huge success, their sales are strongly decreasing and much lower.
Huss
Veteran
There’s an M6 on the classifieds just now for $2650. And an M4 for $1875...
james.liam
Well-known
I did forget the MA. Wasn’t referring to MF or LF cameras. Forgive me for ignoring pinhole cameras and Lomos. Can’t mention them in the same breath as a Leica.
I really hope you’re right but only time will tell. This he been driven by Millennials but they have attention spans of small burrowing mammals. WADR.
Huss
Veteran
Ok, so pretty much what you are saying is that the only film cameras that matter are Leicas, because you don't like the others. So they don't count.
With that logic what are you complaining about? As long as Leica makes film cameras, you are ok.
FYI the Lomo LC-A 120 is fantastic. Its lens saturates kolors like crazy. No-one else makes a super wide angle, auto exposure medium format camera. Let alone one that is so compact.
Guth
Appreciative User
Regardless of where one stands on the rising prices for M6 cameras, or how they feel about the forces of supply and demand, what is not so clear to me is just exactly who is demanding (buying) these cameras. I see more and more people out and about with film cameras these days, most of them quite a bit younger than myself. But I haven't noticed these people using Leica's. The main attraction when it comes to the M6 would seem to be the built-in light meter. Some have noted that this indicates that hipsters are the likely consumers. Are "hipsters" even a thing any more? Surely us older folks have a different term to describe or otherwise pigeonhole the next wave of young people have come along in the past twenty years, lol.
I was in my late 30's when I purchased my M6 and I'll confess that had it not featured a built-in light meter I wouldn't have bought it back in 2000. (Maybe someday I will figure out how to successfully apply the Sunny 16 rule, but I'm in no rush.) If there were a group of older guys looking down on me at the time for my dependency on a built-in light meter I was not aware of it, nor would I have likely cared. Whether we are talking about a Leica M6 or a Minolta SRT I for one hope that the younger generations are the primary buyers of these cameras. That is much more likely to breed new life/new interest in photography in general whether they choose to stick with film photography or not.
A number of years ago I never could have imagined vinyl LP playback enjoying the popularity that it does now. Friends used to give me a hard time for hanging on to my vinyl and continuing to enjoy the listening experience I got from it. Now I couldn't afford to replace my album collection were something to happen to it. Turntables themselves can sell for many times the cost of a new digital M Leica. Who could have guessed? I have no idea what will become of film photography over the next decade or two. But I'll admit that I would find it somewhat entertaining if the major manufacturers ended up returning to the production of film cameras to capitalize on the growing demand.
I was in my late 30's when I purchased my M6 and I'll confess that had it not featured a built-in light meter I wouldn't have bought it back in 2000. (Maybe someday I will figure out how to successfully apply the Sunny 16 rule, but I'm in no rush.) If there were a group of older guys looking down on me at the time for my dependency on a built-in light meter I was not aware of it, nor would I have likely cared. Whether we are talking about a Leica M6 or a Minolta SRT I for one hope that the younger generations are the primary buyers of these cameras. That is much more likely to breed new life/new interest in photography in general whether they choose to stick with film photography or not.
A number of years ago I never could have imagined vinyl LP playback enjoying the popularity that it does now. Friends used to give me a hard time for hanging on to my vinyl and continuing to enjoy the listening experience I got from it. Now I couldn't afford to replace my album collection were something to happen to it. Turntables themselves can sell for many times the cost of a new digital M Leica. Who could have guessed? I have no idea what will become of film photography over the next decade or two. But I'll admit that I would find it somewhat entertaining if the major manufacturers ended up returning to the production of film cameras to capitalize on the growing demand.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Like it or not..these days..
1K to 2K..or even more..
Is not a lot to spend on a camera...for pro use..
Esp a camera that does not become obsolete in a few months..and will probably run for years..
1K to 2K..or even more..
Is not a lot to spend on a camera...for pro use..
Esp a camera that does not become obsolete in a few months..and will probably run for years..
P
PhotoGog
Guest
Finally, someone asks the important question (which indeed indicates the pop cultural out of touchness of some posters). Lambasting hipsters in 2020 is akin to dumping on hippies in 1980. The moment passed a while ago (likely with the last album from The Strokes).
P
PhotoGog
Guest
Agreed. Sure, AUD 3,000 is a lot of money for mostly all, but here in Oz that is the cost of the X-Pro 3. Putting aside the capabilities of digital vs film, if spent on a mint M6 in 5, 10, 15, 20 years time I know which one will retain its value and use ... If silver halides on gelatine are still being made of course.
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