Limited 35mm budget: Zeiss vs Leica

[varjag]

Summicron v4 has been great for me so far. I tried the Biogon briefly, it was an excellent lens as well, impeccable at f/2.

I'm less enamored with the Ultron however, not very good option for the prices they go now used.

 

[sepiareverb]

... BTW, the v2 summilux 50 is E43, too, and it renders OOF areas in a way that the v3 or asph doesn't, and I think it might be highly conducive to your shooting in the woods --- also a great excuse for a lens with which to share E43 filters 😉...

I'd forgotten about that version of the 50/1.4. I'm shooting a E46 version that shares filters with my 28/2.0s, the 50/1.4 ASPH and a bunch of my Contax G glass. And, yes- it is perfect in the woods.

 

[Krosya]

Ultron - better than some may think.

Ultron - better than some may think.

Summicron v4 has been great for me so far. I tried the Biogon briefly, it was an excellent lens as well, impeccable at f/2.

I'm less enamored with the Ultron however, not very good option for the prices they go now used.

In your link - these are the issues listed with Ultron:
1.90cm closest focus distance;
2.ergonomics: you too often end up inadvertently changing the aperture while focusing;
3.the lens is prone to streaks of flare when the sun is just outside the frame;
4.it has an annoying tendency to come apart after substantial use;
5.the lens wide-open is not entirely sharp.

Well, all those are based on one user's opinion. I do agree with one general statement that applies to ALL Cosina made items (CV and Zeiss) - if you get a good one - it's very good, but they do need to have a better quality control.
Now, back to those 5 issues.:
1 - Close focus is a big issue, - fortunately - it can be adjusted to focus closer (look for my thread about that here on RFF).
2. Personal thing - I never confuse focus ring with the apreture one.
3. Flare - maybe, but I cant say that I have experienced this. Maybe I never had my lens at just that angle to the sun, but than again - many other lenses have a much worse flare problems.
4. See my general statement about Cosina. Some people report this and some never had problems. Plus since it's something that people are aware of as being a possibility - there is an easy fix. I personally never had a problem with 3 I have owned over the years.
5. Sharpness - again - if you get a good one - it's sharp. Unsharp could be an issue with those lenses that also had a wobble issue? Mine seems to be sharp enough for my taste. It's no Lux Asph, butg it's not supposed to be.
So, to me - it's a superb lens for the price.
But if you disagree with me - hey - it's your money - get a Leica or whatever if it makes you happy. All I say is based on my own experience and research. I just try share it.

 

[kevin m]

4.it has an annoying tendency to come apart after substantial use;
5.the lens wide-open is not entirely sharp.

4. So does the Summicron. My German-made Version IV had to be reassembled three times. And personally, my sense of humor about build-quality flaws goes down as the price goes up.

5. Neither is the Summicron. It's reputation is earned at the middle apertures, not wide-open. There are any number of 35's that outperform the Summicron at f2.0.

 

[time]

Thanks you all for your advices.

After reading some posts here, I went for the Nokton 35mm f1.2 and save some dollars. The Zeiss biogon is very nice, but the Nokton is special and cheap - and may be out of production now😉 Thanks.

Now I am waiting to see its bokeh and night shots. It is still quite dark here in the winter time.

 

[varjag]

4. So does the Summicron. My German-made Version IV had to be reassembled three times. And personally, my sense of humor about build-quality flaws goes down as the price goes up.

Totally agree, although it's a different kind of problem with the IV: poor choice of material. I in fact assembled mine from parts lens that the local shop gave up to revive. Perhaps I should put a write-up on it too, as it seems to be very common problem.

5. Neither is the Summicron. It's reputation is earned at the middle apertures, not wide-open. There are any number of 35's that outperform the Summicron at f2.0.

Yes, there is a number of 35s that outperform Summicron pre-asph, although not a very large number. The Ultron 35mm, however, is not one of them. And I paid about same money for either of them (for obvious reasons the cron was cheap), so it's not a money-related cognitive dissonance.

 

[varjag]

Now, back to those 5 issues.:
1 - Close focus is a big issue, - fortunately - it can be adjusted to focus closer (look for my thread about that here on RFF).
2. Personal thing - I never confuse focus ring with the apreture one.
3. Flare - maybe, but I cant say that I have experienced this. Maybe I never had my lens at just that angle to the sun, but than again - many other lenses have a much worse flare problems.
4. See my general statement about Cosina. Some people report this and some never had problems. Plus since it's something that people are aware of as being a possibility - there is an easy fix. I personally never had a problem with 3 I have owned over the years.
5. Sharpness - again - if you get a good one - it's sharp. Unsharp could be an issue with those lenses that also had a wobble issue? Mine seems to be sharp enough for my taste. It's no Lux Asph, butg it's not supposed to be.

1. Good point.
2. Me neither: it happens only with Ultron, due to combination of weak clickstops and unfortunate location of the ring. Pretty common complaint if you dig up the forums, too.
3. Not maybe, it's there and not just on my sample. Maybe you just don't shoot enough in daylight 😉
4. Some people simply don't use the lens enough. It will not show up if one is shooting 10 rolls a year with it.
5. I'm not sure what the cause of the sharpness issue. Not the wobble, as it was the same before and after.

So, to me - it's a superb lens for the price.
But if you disagree with me - hey - it's your money - get a Leica or whatever if it makes you happy. All I say is based on my own experience and research. I just try share it.

Well that was exactly my point: it was attractive option some years back, but not for the price it goes now. But I agree you are entitled to your own opinion and have no problem with you sharing it, no offense was meant.

 

[kevin m]

Yes, there is a number of 35s that outperform Summicron pre-asph, although not a very large number. The Ultron 35mm, however, is not one of them. And I paid about same money for either of them (for obvious reasons the cron was cheap), so it's not a money-related cognitive dissonance.

The reverse might have been the case on my end. I simply expect more out of an expensive item than I do a lest-costly one, so I was quite unpleasantly surprised to find the Ultron within spitting distance of the Summicron.

 

[elmer3.5]

Summarit!

Summarit!

Hi, had the same question few weeks ago.

Owned previously the biogon 35/2 and dissapointed me at full aperture also it´s large. Gorgeous at f4!

So at las i bought the summarit 35 f2.5 small, great at full aperture and not so expensive, also more modern rendering than v3 & v4.

A sober choice.🙂

Bye.

 

[sepiareverb]

Out with the Biogon on the M9 briefly today, no comparison shots, but my initial impression: Darn good lens. I entered it as the V4 35 Summicron.

Came upon this shop window, a very nice means of establishing exactly what the lens does when it comes to detail across the plane. Only the very extreme corners are soft, shot at f4.

I can read all the text at 100%, except in the very corners which are slightly out of sharp: (upper right crop)

Beautiful color:

 

[NLewis]

I was thinking about the same thing, and although I haven't chosen yet, I figured that a good combo was the Zeiss 35/2.8 plus the CV 35/1.4. The combo comes in around $1000 if you shop around. Why this combo? Both are small, compact lenses. The ZM 2.0 is bigger than I'd like. The 2.8 is killer for image quality. If you need a wider aperture, pop on the 1.4.

 

[chrismoret]

Get the Biogon f:2, and don't look back 🙂

 

[semilog]

^--- this is but one of many roads, grasshopper.

 

[Lflex]

I like 35/2 version 3. It is cheaper and better build than v4 - even if they were same price, I would take v3. I don't know the other types mentioned in this thread.

 

[varjag]

Ok, as promised I did a write-up on Summicron v4 innards, available here. Hope it will be useful..

 

[kzphoto]

M-Hexanon 35. I had a biogon 35/2 and I always felt it was just a little soft wide open. The M-Hex 35/2 is razor sharp wide open and up close. Just how I like it.

It is large though, larger at least than the Leica / ZM lenses.

 

[sanmich]

I am sure the biogon is great, but since the Hex-M can be had at the same price, that would be my choice (I have one).
Only con is the size. I dislike the lens being so darn long.
For under 1k$ the cron ver 3 is another option. Never used it, but for some reason I would expect it to perform just a tad worse than the more modern Hex.
All in all I would take the hex for performance and the cron for size.

 

[jsrockit]

Easily the Zeiss Biogon or the Voigtlander 35/1.2 if you can handle the size/weight, and the speed 😉

I have to agree... add the C-Biogon to that as well.

 

[doolittle]

If may chime in on this thread: I'm on the look out for a 35mm lens myself (for use on my M6, mainly shooting B&W).
I would like something compact, but not necessary fast, so have been looking at Biogon C 2.8. Not too many appearing second hand, so would probably have to buy new.
Summicron 40mm looks interesting, presume 35mm frame lines would be close enough?
I thought the Canon ltm were an interesting proposition, but prices seem to have gone up.
From looking at shots taken with various 35mm lenses, I would have to say Summicron 35mm v3 has the most pleasing character, to my eye anyway.

 

[mile]

If may chime in on this thread: I'm on the look out for a 35mm lens myself (for use on my M6, mainly shooting B&W).
I would like something compact, but not necessary fast, so have been looking at Biogon C 2.8. Not too many appearing second hand, so would probably have to buy new.

You could take a look at the Jupiter 12 (35/2.8, ltm). You should be able to find one of those for about 60EUR in good condition.
This lens is somewhat special as the rear lens protrudes quite a bit into the camera and blocks a part of the white TTL metering patch. But you can circumvent this by knocking up your ISO dial by one+ step.
At least, that's what I use at the moment and have taken some nice shots with it.