M-body for under $1k = fantasy?

[Steinberg2010]

Another way (if you have the capital to float and the energy/effort) is to buy a set (camera with lens etc.) Often the combined price would be a little lower than buying separately (at least that's been my experience) and then split the items.


~S

 

[Orthogonal]

Tangental topic, but what is up with M4-2 and M4-P prices over the last few years? Somewhat anecdotal, but I feel like they Used to be they were consistently the cheapest M commonly for sale for 600-800, now they seem to be priced on par or above "better" bodies like the M2 or 3 whose prices seem to have remained fairly flat. Is it just because they're black or something?

Back to OP, yes it's pretty common to see M2s and 3s, somtimes M4s and M5s on ebay for under 1k . Just beware of getting a camera that needs a servicing, it can easily cost you a few hundred.

 

[ninadp]

Tangental topic, but what is up with M4-2 and M4-P prices over the last few years? Somewhat anecdotal, but I feel like they Used to be they were consistently the cheapest M commonly for sale for 600-800, now they seem to be priced on par or above "better" bodies like the M2 or 3 whose prices seem to have remained fairly flat. Is it just because they're black or something?

Back to OP, yes it's pretty common to see M2s and 3s, somtimes M4s and M5s on ebay for under 1k . Just beware of getting a camera that needs a servicing, it can easily cost you a few hundred.

M4-P is popular also because it has 28mm frame lines. But mostly I think, yes, it's because of the colors.

 

[shawn]

Back to OP, yes it's pretty common to see M2s and 3s, somtimes M4s and M5s on ebay for under 1k . Just beware of getting a camera that needs a servicing, it can easily cost you a few hundred.

Unless you buy it from somewhere that just serviced it I'd suggest budgeting as if it will get serviced after buying it. Last year I bought a M3 and this saved me from bigger problems later on due to the mirror oxidizing. Youxin Ye pointed it out to me and I was able to return the camera.

Shawn

 

[Deleted member 65559]

yes it's pretty common to see M2s and 3s, somtimes M4s and M5s on ebay for under 1k . Just beware of getting a camera that needs a servicing, it can easily cost you a few hundred.

.....not today & you're right about M4-2/M4-P $1500-$3k on today's Ebay

 

[Beemermark]

Tangental topic, but what is up with M4-2 and M4-P prices over the last few years? Somewhat anecdotal, but I feel like they Used to be they were consistently the cheapest M commonly for sale for 600-800, now they seem to be priced on par or above "better" bodies like the M2 or 3 whose prices seem to have remained fairly flat. Is it just because they're black or something?.

I've wondered about that also. Lot of people using the 75mm lens and want the RF marks? The M4 (and heck M2) are better built cameras, have better finders (without the flare) and most of us prefer less VF frames.

 

[Beemermark]

M4-P is popular also because it has 28mm frame lines. But mostly I think, yes, it's because of the colors.

The M4 (and M2 I think) has the same VF. In the m4-2 and later cameras the 28mm frame lines are at the very edge of the VF. The the M4 and M2 have the same field of view using the edge of the VF. No need for frame-lines.

 

[KoNickon]

I would think (I haven't monitored the market) that earlier M3s would be the least expensive. Not the higher serial numbers (> 1 000 000) but double strokes or conversions to single stroke.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

A clean [film] CL can be had for <$400; add ~$200 for a CLA. Add a lens (either a 40mm Summicron or a 40mm CV Nokton) for ~$400.

You're all-in at ~$1,000!

 

[Deleted member 65559]

A clean [film] CL can be had for <$400; add ~$200 for a CLA. Add a lens (either a 40mm Summicron or a 40mm CV Nokton) for ~$400.

You're all-in at ~$1,000!

the OP already scored a CL.... i think he may be looking to take the bait for an M2,3,4....

 

[maigo]

M-body for under $1k = fantasy?

Igor has some M bodies for close to $1K.
{So-called Mint} CLAd CL for $475

http://www.igorcamera.com/leica_cameras.htm

 

[jankap]

I'm new to all this. Everything I see advertised is north of $1200 or so. Is this the new standard?

Must it be an M? There is the CL-line too! For me the better one.
The discussion here is about second hand cameras.

 

[ninadp]

The M4 (and M2 I think) has the same VF. In the m4-2 and later cameras the 28mm frame lines are at the very edge of the VF. The the M4 and M2 have the same field of view using the edge of the VF. No need for frame-lines.

This makes a lot of sense but I think that the prices are also being driven up by first time rangefinder users who don't understand the specific nuances of these things. Someone on Reddit or Instagram says, if you want to use 28mm lenses then get an M4-P or later and everyone rushes to those. A famous Youtuber releases a video called "Why the M6 is the 'ultimate' Leica M" and eBay is suddenly sold out of M6 bodies. Then of course there's the persistent idea that if you want to "shoot street" you need a 28mm lens, nothing else will do.

Speaking of low-information photographers, a colleague has been photographing film and digital semi-professionally for nearly thirty years but only on (D)SLRs. He's never used an M body or cared to use one. For the longest time he thought the reason why M lenses cost so much is because they have leaf shutters.

 

[ninadp]

Igor has some M bodies for close to $1K.
{So-called Mint} CLAd CL for $475

http://www.igorcamera.com/leica_cameras.htm

NatCam also has a couple but they'll need CLAs

https://www.natcam.com/product-category/used/cameras-rangefinder/

They have a nice IIIg that I would love to have but can't due to other recent purchases. Plus I don't have a LTM lens anyway...

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Must it be an M? There is the CL-line too! For me the better one.
The discussion here is about second hand cameras.

Jan, If you read post # 12, Horatio already has a CL.....
When he says " the new standard?"..... he means the recent standard for used prices, not new cameras. It is a more obvious in English than German perhaps....

 

[Horatio]

the OP already scored a CL.... i think he may be looking to take the bait for an M2,3,4....

Hmmmm... drinking the Koolaid... perhaps.😀

I actually bought the CL as a low-cost entry into Leicaland in order to test the waters and see what all the fuss is about. If I like the RF platform I will probably want a slightly better camera down the road.

The small form factor of the CL, with M-series lens compatibility, appealed to me. I have a Yashica Lynx 5000 with a fixed lens. It feels cheap in comparison, though people rave about its optics.

Anyway, thanks to all for the thoughtful responses.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Horatio, drinking the Koolaid is not a bad thing..... M are great cameras & you're right, M camera prices have risen a lot. Two years ago, I sold my MP (film) to buy my M4 black paint. Listed here, it sold within 2 hrs.....as it happens to someone who lives an hour away from me by car. On ebay, i've never seen a well used MP..... they all look pristine...considering they were released in 2003. You'll have to keep a lookout for an M is you have a budget, they do come up at slightly lower prices...but you're more likely to find one on a forum than on Ebay. Best of luck, they're great cameras

 

[jmonat7]

with patience, you can find one under $1k pretty easily to be honest. Look for an M2 if you want to shoot 35mm, M3 for 50mm, and an M4 (probably a 4-2) for more versatility and quick loading. I wouldn't look on ebay. I would post a WTB here and on FredMiranda and you should be able to find one for a good price.

 

[splitimageview]

Hmmmm... drinking the Koolaid... perhaps.😀

I actually bought the CL as a low-cost entry into Leicaland in order to test the waters and see what all the fuss is about. If I like the RF platform I will probably want a slightly better camera down the road.

The small form factor of the CL, with M-series lens compatibility, appealed to me. I have a Yashica Lynx 5000 with a fixed lens. It feels cheap in comparison, though people rave about its optics.

Anyway, thanks to all for the thoughtful responses.

A nice condition CL is the modern barnack.

Mx are too big. 🙂 And too fiddly to load, and other than the M5 none have proper meter needles in the vf.

 

[David Murphy]

A beater working M2/M3 runs at least $850 these days. All problem free M2/M3/M4's are typically well north or $1K. Of course one can always get lucky, but it's not easy. A Decent Minolta CL, at least $500. The Bessa R2, maybe $600 and up. The other more recently made or collectible Voigtlander M bodies cost even more, some as much more than a Leica M. The CL and Voigtlander are OK cameras, but not 100% compatible with all the Leica lenses and fittings. That's the big picture right now in the film M body world.

Naturally this is not too good. The LTM camera and lens system doesn't necessarily any longer offer a reasonable rangefinder alternative to the M system. The problem with this system is that while still many good LTM bodies are available at moderate prices, better quality LTM lenses are accelerating greatly in price since no new LTM lenses are being made.

My guess is that Chinese manufacturers might fill this void before too long. If they can make a Noctilux copy for $750, I have little doubt they can make Leica M compatible camera bodies.

Incidentally, I personally think the Leica M-A is reasonably priced for what it is. An amazing camera of the highest quality that can last generations. Some less expensive alternatives would still be desirable!