M-body for under $1k = fantasy?

Horatio said:
Thanks for the details on the M4-2 @Godfrey. I’m leaning towards a black M4. Time to start selling some vintage bike stuff.
Click to expand...

Now we're talking. Never. You can never go wrong with a black M4. You'll find it was worth the sacrifice 😉. They make bikes everyday.

42008464115_4d6c4622a7_z.jpg
Flickr
 
I purchased a near mint M6 in 2017 for £850, and that was from a dealer. I spent a further £270 for CLA and a re-skin. If I chose to sell I might get £2000, less through a dealer, probably 20% less. But I’m not selling.
 
Ricoh said:
I purchased a near mint M6 in 2017 for £850, and that was from a dealer. I spent a further £270 for CLA and a re-skin. If I chose to sell I might get £2000, less through a dealer, probably 20% less. But I’m not selling.
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From my limited “research” it seems the time to buy was yesterday, or last year! :bang: I’ll just have to remain vigilant, or luck out as beneficiary in someone’s last will.🙄

In a way, I’ve already demonstrated it’s possible to buy an M-type for less than a grand: my beater CL. But I’ve set my sights higher. Why? Good question. Why are my favorite road bikes steel classics with Campagnolo components? Why do I own a 1946 Luscombe 8A? Why would I own a ‘69 Porsche 911, if I could? Because I see value in the craftsmanship. Because they were made to perform; made to last. Because their quality makes a difference.

Well, that’s what I tell myself as justification. Really, there’s no need to justify ownership (custodianship) for any of these things.
 
Horatio said:
Thanks, Maarten. I'll consider it, but I'm really trying to avoid older camera electronics. I want something that doesn't depend upon a battery.
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Hi,

I think you'll that is the problem; those that don't depend upon a battery are the older and now "classic" M series; meaning the M2, M3 and M4's. And classic means dearer and that makes the budget figure a problem.

But - it's a big "but" btw - is getting one for under USD1000 a fantasy? I would say it is a rarity but they are out there and you have to search patiently and do a bit of homework about the cameras and the sellers.

There's another "but" coming as the M5, CL and M6 use batteries for the metering but can be used without them if you have an eye for the light or else an external meter. So can the M7 but I can't see the point of buying one to use without a meter battery.

Mentioning batteries raises a couple of other points in that the M's (I'm not sure which as I don't own/use all of them) can use an external meter designed to sit on top of the camera body. The early ones MC (mostly) don't need a battery but the later MR does and the MR's battery is a mercury one or else an expensive adapter or Wein cells. (These can be shared with the CL, btw.)

My opinion, FWIW, is that the basic decision is about 35mm lenses (googled or not - meaning M3 or M2/4). A minor point is the 135mm lens, the cluttered VF or some and then self -timers. Sort that out and life becomes a lot easier...

Regards, David

PS If you "want" a Leica you are doomed because you are standing on top of a very slippery slope. Most end up getting them all and wondering how they got there. Being rational doesn't come in to it.
 
Hmmm, it makes more sense to me to buy Leica glass and a cheaper but OK body than a Leica body and "foreign" glass. The lenses are what make Leicas desirable, imo; not the red dot. Although for most people almost any of the well known makes in RF or slr will give very good to excellent results. (There's even P&S's that have very good lenses on them, especially if you never print bigger that 12" x 8".)

Why not that old warhorse the FED 2 and a Leica screw mount lens like a Summicron or Summaron or Elmar etc?

Or a more conventional RF like the Zorki 6 and a Leica lens like the Summitar?

If you want to go down the USSR made lens route then there are some very good lenses out there but I would suggest you pair them with a FSU body.

FWIW, I've nothing against mixing them, I was using a Jupiter-3 on a digital Leica M9 recently and have used a lot of others that way including a LOMO 40mm (? plastic) Triplet.


Regards, David
 
Horatio said:
I'm new to all this. Everything I see advertised is north of $1200 or so. Is this the new standard?
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Yes.
Demand for film is increasing for years.
That causes increasing demand for film cameras = increasing prices.
Especially for cameras like the film based Leica M cameras, as there is only limited supply of them on the used market. Only about 600,000 units have been produced since 1954 , the introduction year of the M cameras.

In comparison the Canon AE-1 and AE-1 Program had in total about 6 million units built.

Cheers, Jan
 
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HHPhoto said:
Yes.
Demand for film is increasing for years.
That causes increasing demand for film cameras = increasing prices.
Especially for cameras like the film based Leica M cameras, as there is only limited supply of them on the used market. Only about 600,000 units have been produced since 1954 , the introduction year of the M cameras.

In comparison the Canon AE-1 and AE-1 Program had in total about 6 million units built.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...

Yes. Supply and demand, of course. Even prices for junk cameras are apparently increasing.

You'd never know there's a worldwide recession in progress.
 
HHPhoto said:
Yes.
Demand for film is increasing for years.
That causes increasing demand for film cameras = increasing prices.
Especially for cameras like the film based Leica M cameras, as there is only limited supply of them on the used market. Only about 600,000 units have been produced since 1954 , the introduction year of the M cameras.

In comparison the Canon AE-1 and AE-1 Program had in total about 6 million units built.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...

Interesting stat from Jan... I wonder what the total M mount cameras, from all brands, ends up being? That certainly puts pricing in perspective for sure.
 
jsrockit said:
Interesting stat from Jan... I wonder what the total M mount cameras, from all brands, ends up being? That certainly puts pricing in perspective for sure.
Click to expand...

I had asked Zeiss at Photokina some years ago about the total number of the ZM: About 10,000 units.
This very low number also explains why the Zeiss Ikon ZM on the used market is meanwhile often surpassing its former new price.

I don't know the numbers for the Cosina/Voigtländer 35mm rangefinders. But I think the total number will be below 100,000 units.
But perhaps Stephen Gandy knows the number, as he has sold them for so long and was in direct contact to the manufacturer.

Cheers, Jan
 
If you’re in Portland, Oregon a first production run M3, no preview lever and the old shutter speeds just popped up on Craigslist for a thousand dollars. Also states a recent service by Ye Camera.
 
Usedphotopro just put up a m3 for $949 but it is rough. I bought mine from them a month ago for about $100 more and it is gorgeous and a 1.3million serial # body.

50138480002_2ab6269bc7_c.jpg


I bought another from them last fall but ended up returning it due to the mirror oxidizing. If you go for a M3 make sure to check that. Shine a light into the viewfinder from an angle and look at it from an angle. If you see anything that looks like this:

49111874127_a545e1a8c9_c.jpg


Run away from the sale.

Shawn
 
Beemermark said:
That's black chrome as opposed to Black Lacquer. Had one once and sold it to a RFF member. The black chromes never go anywhere near the price of a black lacquer. I wouldn't pay more than $1600 for a mint one.
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Mark, I think your best friend might sell you one for $1.6, but current dealer prices are more than a used M6. I also prefer the black paint ones, but Horatio has quickly gone from "A used M for under $1k ?" To lusting after a black M4..... no question a black chrome one is less than a black paint one. Two years ago a pretty much swapped a used (brass showing in places) MP for a '68 M4 black paint. Honestly if you know of a black chrome M4 for $1600.... i'd be happy to buy it.
 
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