M4 or M4-P

M4 or M4-P

  • M4

    Votes: 29 54.7%

  • M4-P

    Votes: 24 45.3%
  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
simonbakhshnia

simonbakhshnia

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Hello all, I am new to the rangefinder community and shooting with Leica's. I am considering buying either the M4 or M4-P but I am not 100% sold on either one yet. That's where you all come in, I would like someone to try to convince me to buy either the M4 or M4-P. I have done some research myself and I don't have an issue with the M4-P being made in Canada because it was still engineered by German engineers. But I just need that final shove in one direction. So thanks to whoever helps me out!

Simon
 
The M4-P has a different viewfinder than the M4. The M4 has framelines for 35mm, 50mm, 90mm, and (I think) 135mm lenses.

The M-4P also has framelines for 28mm lenses, and I think it has 75mm framelines, too.

The later M6 is basically the same as an M4-P, with built in meter added. So, if you like the M6 but don't want a meter, get the M4-P.

The main thing to consider between the M4 and the M4-P is the finder framelines. If you use 28mm lenses, you'll probably want the M4-P. If you get an M4 and use 28mm lens, you'll need to buy and use a 28mm accessory finder.

There are build quality differences, too. The M4 has brass top and bottom; the M4-P uses zinc like the M6, and some of the internal stuff is made more cheaply on the M4-P. I never used an M4-P but I had three M6 bodies at one time, and I also had a couple of M4 bodies. The M4 is heavier and smoother in operation, but the M6 is still built better than most cameras out there.

Another thing with the viewfinders is that the rangefinder spot in the M4-P is more prone to flare than the one in the M4.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
The M4-P has a different viewfinder than the M4. The M4 has framelines for 35mm, 50mm, 90mm, and (I think) 135mm lenses.

The M-4P also has framelines for 28mm lenses, and I think it has 75mm framelines, too.

The later M6 is basically the same as an M4-P, with built in meter added. So, if you like the M6 but don't want a meter, get the M4-P.

The main thing to consider between the M4 and the M4-P is the finder framelines. If you use 28mm lenses, you'll probably want the M4-P. If you get an M4 and use 28mm lens, you'll need to buy and use a 28mm accessory finder.

There are build quality differences, too. The M4 has brass top and bottom; the M4-P uses zinc like the M6, and some of the internal stuff is made more cheaply on the M4-P. I never used an M4-P but I had three M6 bodies at one time, and I also had a couple of M4 bodies. The M4 is heavier and smoother in operation, but the M6 is still built better than most cameras out there.

Another thing with the viewfinders is that the rangefinder spot in the M4-P is more prone to flare than the one in the M4.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this information! I read that some of the M4-P's are made from brass as well, the ones where the viewfinder is recessed. Not 100% sure if this is true.
 
simonbakhshnia said:
Thanks for this information! I read that some of the M4-P's are made from brass as well, the ones where the viewfinder is recessed. Not 100% sure if this is true.
Click to expand...

That’s correct. What the top plate is made of has remarkably little influence on the photos.

These are 40 year old cameras, if you can get one with a recent verifiable receipt for a clean, lubricate and adjust (CLA) it is worth it. Otherwise you have a reasonable chance of buying a camera that will need one with associated cost. The better the condition, the more likely it is, in some ways, to need a CLA. Good condition indicates sitting, and little use.

Marty
 
The M4 is in fact an M2, but with a 135mm frameline added and different wind/rewind levers/knobs. The M4 has a "quick" film loading system. There is no difference in quality. An M4 is just as smooth and precise as an M2. The M4-P however is built to lower standards, hence it is cheaper.


An M4 can be had in black paint.


Erik.
 
I love my 28mm lens on my M4-P. On M4, you would have to use an external finder. An M4 has a self time that I hate too.
Unless you will be using your camera as a nut cracker the top zinc plate of the M4-P has no difference to the brass plate of the M4. If you like the engraved markings atop, go for the M4.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
If you get an M4 and use 28mm lens, you'll need to buy and use a 28mm accessory finder.
Click to expand...

papaki said:
I love my 28mm lens on my M4-P. On M4, you would have to use an external finder.
Click to expand...

If the M4 is anything like the M2, it works just fine for 28mm without an external finder - just frame using the full viewfinder.

I actually bought a 28mm external finder for my M2 thinking I would 'need' it. Never gets used...
 
I use them along for decades (plus other gear of course).
Mainly, I use with my choice of lens to put on.


My advice is this : choose one with the focal length to be used most in mind.


If you don't use self-timer the one on M4 can be in your way of holding the camera, which for me the M4-P is better for this.


If one day you want a Leicavit M or winder/motor, the only choice is M4-P, as M4-M or M4-Mot are rare and very expensive.


If you use flash, the hot shoe is only on M4-P .


If you use 28mm, the framelines is only in M4-P .


In use, the M4 is very gentle winding on, M4-P is less smooth.
The VF is better in contrast in M4-P but patch prone to flare more than M4.


Anyway, each (like each M I use ...) can let you take wonderful images with pleasure.
 
Framelines: If you shoot 28 and don't use glasses, go with the M4-P to avoid external VF. If you use glasses, don't bother, you won't be able to see the framelines anyway.

There are two versions of the M4-P: the later one, with a zinc top (flushed front VF window) has smaller, less precise framelines which live on to this day (M6/7/P/A)

Accessories: if you want to use a flash M4-P is much easier (hot shoe vs X to Hot shoe adapter)
motor drive/Leicavit, M4-P only

Color: the plain vanilla M4 is chrome, the M4-P is black. You can buy the other version of either for a premium

The M4 is a beautiful machine, but can be 15 years older, and they have a tendency to have a catastrophic curtain break. Once they are repaired/CLA'd they are just wonderful.
 
If to choose one now, I'd take M4 Black Chrome like the one I have for decades.
Even newer ones, here MP and M-A can not be as nice to use as the old brother.
MP was traded for Monochrom ( Oh ! ), for more fun.


U46502I1469833688.SEQ.4.jpg
 
M4-P has some Disney World Store feel in it. And framelines are cluttered. The only reasons to me to get this one again would be:
28 mm frames, using flash normally. Or if camera has CLA withing one year.

M4 and before are different cameras. Every time I hold one of those, I'm saying "make Germany great again".
 
Both are extraordinary cameras. Get one, shoot it, enjoy. Splitting hairs over things you have no experience with right now and asking the opinions of others on these things is just mental mastur******. Get one of them and have fun. In spite of what some M4-p naysayers preach, it is one of the nicest cameras you can buy. Don't overlook the M4-2 either. People will tell you that it will disintegrate after a single roll. Or the winder is so rough that it will hurt or cause disability. (I'm exaggerating here). Or whatever ill folks may say about the M4-2, most of them are still going strong and are also extraordinary cameras.
Phil Forrest
 
Either camera is fine with me.

I do own both and I find the pictures I make are the same with either camera.

I can put my 28mm lens on my M4 and use it. Frame lines, no frame lines it doesn’t bother me.
 
The so called roughness I noticed on my M6TTL bought new 2000.
One tiny repair a few years ago,.hefty bill..
I use M3 from new, since 1967., very heavy use..
The M6 is now almost as smooth as M3 and M2..
Get the one where price is right, sounds and feels nice.
Friend has M4-P many years and it feels same as my M6.
The later viewfinders kinda upsetting, in poor framing accuracy .
No camera is built like a Leica., but Services are reqd..
 
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