Minox Sub miniature

[lxmike]

Never shot with sub miniature before, saw a good deal on a minox film sub miniature that looks like a IIIf, l might buy it for the novelty value, a few questions arise, how available is the film, where in the uk develops and prints sub miniature film, what are these little gems like to shoot with....am l mad or just suffering from GAS😱 Thanks for any thoughts on this. Mods if this is in the wrong section please feel free to move

 

[zuiko85]

M S Hobbies in Southampton did sell Minox film, don't know if they still do. It's available in the US from Blue Moon Camera in Portland OR. It is very expensive and most folks just build a film slitter to cut down 35mm into two 9.2mm side by side strips, and load their own cartridges. I bought old, outdated film off of ebay, dumped the film and load my own. Even 20 year old outdated film can be $10 to $20 a cartridge so reloading is the only cost effective way to shoot Minox 8X11 now.

There may be a source in Germany also.

 

[Godfrey]

I have a lots of experience working with Minox format submini cameras. The originals (Minox III, IIIS, B, C, LX, etc) are brilliant, superb bits of mechanical camera workmanship.

The 'toy' cameras, like the miniature Leica IIIf, can make a decent photograph but are not really up the the standards of lens quality, etc, required to take seriously. They're fun, however.

Film and processing can be obtained from Blue Moon Camera (https://www.bluemooncamera.com/) in the USA. I don't know who in the UK is a stockist or provides services for Minox format film at this point in time. Since once upon a time I used to be in London on a reasonably frequent basis, I remember there was a camera shop near the British Museum that had a ton of Minox submini equipment and film in stock ... I have no idea whether they're still there, it was at least a decade ago that I last recall being in the shop for a visit.

I've always shot B&W in Minox format and processed my own film using the Minox daylight loading tank. Since the mid-1990s, I scanned the negatives directly and rendered the scans for display and printing. Nowadays, I scan the negatives with a copy camera setup ... See https://flic.kr/s/aHskshuyHV.

If you go for it, take it lightly and enjoy it! It's just a tiny sliver of a negative so don't expect grandiose things. 😀

G

Minox EC, APX 400 - XTOL​

 

[Roger Hicks]

Everyone should try one at least once. Personally I prefer 16mm or (better still) Tessina.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I collected full set. Camera, tripod, developing tank, enlarger, films and else.
After developing couple of films I sold it all. And no regrets.

 

[pyeh]

My dad had a Minox B (I think) which I borrowed when I was in high school. I remember taking photos of my friends and school parades and such. My technique was probably terrible but all my photos, when printed postcard size, were blurry like Godfrey's example above.
I even tired to photograph papers, using the steel cord with marker balls to gauge the right macro distance. Those photos were blurry too. I don't know how spies managed to get usable copies of top secret documents filched from the enemies' safes.
I still love them as mechanical objects though, and a few years ago bought a titanium TLX model, which came with developing reels and a homemade film slitter. I haven't used it.

 

[zuiko85]

The Minox sales rep, in the early 70's, would setup demonstrations at various camera stores in Chicago. He had a portable darkroom and could develop and make prints. He would photograph standard 8.5X11 printed pages with line copy film and the next day would make prints on 8X10 paper. You could read every line on the page, they were crisp and clear. I think the film had an ASA of 6 but I cannot remember what company made it.

 

[pyeh]

Well that probably confirms it was my terrible technique. Or maybe I was using film with grain equivalent to the original Tri-X. Pushed.

 

[jbrubaker]

I posted a recent experiment with tmax 100 film in my Minox.

Check this thread:
https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164853

 

[zuiko85]

Well that probably confirms it was my terrible technique. Or maybe I was using film with grain equivalent to the original Tri-X. Pushed.

Understand, the Minox rep had this down to a science. The exact distance to the copy, a line copy film that was more like micro fiche film, didn't need to produce any gray scale, just black or clear on the neg. It was a demonstration of what was possible but in real picture taking, not typical. But that said, I have seen some pictorial Minox prints that were definitely much higher resolution than Godfrey's sample. Prints like jbrubaker's sample in the referenced thread directly above.

I'm getting ready to slit some very old (expired 2009) Ilford Pan F. I'll shoot it at ISO 25 and develop in HC110 at 60:1 dilution, as a one shot developer.

Even at that I'll probably only try to make 3X5 prints.

 

[Godfrey]

...My technique was probably terrible but all my photos, when printed postcard size, were blurry like Godfrey's example above.
...

That was a hand-held available light shot film taken on the fly in the dimness of the Palace of Versailles. Here's a photo more representative of what the Minox CAN produce pretty easily when you put a little more effort into it:

Linda - Palo Alto 2005
Minox C, APX 25​

I'm just not entirely hung up on the notion that everything about a photograph has to be about sharpness... 🙂

That said: The lens in a Minox IIIS, B, C, or LX is capable of resolving over 200 lp/mm on film sufficiently fine grained that can resolve that high. I've made 11x14 inch prints from Minox that are shockingly detailed and sharp; that's a 35x enlargement. But it doesn't come easily ... You must practice technique, focus (on focusing models) and holding the camera properly still. Minox equipment includes a range of different tripod and copy stand jigs to achieve very high resolution results.

 

[Godfrey]

I posted a recent experiment with tmax 100 film in my Minox.

Check this thread:
https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164853

Looks great, John!

G

 

[zuiko85]

That was a hand-held available light shot film taken on the fly in the dimness of the Palace of Versailles. Here's a photo more representative of what the Minox CAN produce pretty easily when you put a little more effort into it:



I'm just not entirely hung up on the notion that everything about a photograph has to be about sharpness... 🙂

Me neither Godfrey, I'm messing around with pinhole in 4X5. 😀
I was looking at all the formats I have on hand;
8X11mm - Minox
10X14mm - Mamiya 16 and Minolta 16
18X24 - Various Olympus VF and Pen F reflex
24X36mm - too many to count, main bodies OM-1 and 4Ti
41X41mm - Agfa Isoly
56X56mm - Yashica, Zeiss Nettar
56X84MM - Kodak, Vigtlander
99X120mm (4X5) - Home made contraptions, pinhole and lensed
Too much choice, not enough time.

 

[lxmike]

Thank you for all the very thought provoking replies, time now to mull all this over a hot pot of tea

 

[pyeh]

You and me both, lxmike. I really shouldn't let my minty mintish mint-like TLX moulder away unused.

 

[zuiko85]

You and me both, lxmike. I really shouldn't let my minty mintish mint-like TLX moulder away unused.

For some more inspiration, flickr has a minox group with 3100 images. Some of them are really quite good for such a small negative.

But the basic message with this format is; unless you have crazy amounts of disposable income, it is a 'do it yourself' format. I bought my Minox on a whim at a photo show 4 years ago. It was a fair deal at $40 for a clean, working IIIs with case and measure chain. But I've spent another $200 buying old NOS film off of ebay plus I sprung for a couple of new rolls at $20 each. I've also spent many hours building a film slitter and cutting down/modifying a plastic developing reel so I can develop my own B&W. I've used the missus sewing machine to sew up 120 clear neg files into sections to hold negative strips.
A lot of work for a hobby.

 

[pyeh]

Zuiko85, I admire your application. I took out the bag of goodies that came with my Minox. It seems like the previous owner was as dedicated and resourceful as you. I have from him:

- a film slitter constructed from acrylic sheet, incorporating a holder for 3 Exacto blades. He left on a 35mm film cartridge with a portion of film would onto the receiving spool so that I can see how it works. It will slit off the perforations and down the centre, giving two strips of 8mm film.
- spare Exacto blades for above.
- another acrylic based contraption for winding the split film into a Minox cartridge.
- 2 spare cartridge bits and pieces in their original film cases.
- 4 Agfapan 25 film cartridges, expired in 1986.
- spare silver oxide battery.
- Patterson type reel for 8mm film.
- an attachment for an enlarger to take Minox film.
I really have no excuse now.

 

[zuiko85]

Zuiko85, I admire your application. I took out the bag of goodies that came with my Minox. It seems like the previous owner was as dedicated and resourceful as you. I have from him:

- a film slitter constructed from acrylic sheet, incorporating a holder for 3 Exacto blades. He left on a 35mm film cartridge with a portion of film would onto the receiving spool so that I can see how it works. It will slit off the perforations and down the centre, giving two strips of 8mm film.
- spare Exacto blades for above.
- another acrylic based contraption for winding the split film into a Minox cartridge.
- 2 spare cartridge bits and pieces in their original film cases.
- 4 Agfapan 25 film cartridges, expired in 1986.
- spare silver oxide battery.
- Patterson type reel for 8mm film.
- an attachment for an enlarger to take Minox film.
I really have no excuse now.

Score! But be very careful of the cartridges. They are fragile, thin plastic and the bridge between the feed and take-up chambers is easy to break. I'm a bit ham fisted and snapped one of mine trying to load it. That was a $20 mistake.

 

[pyeh]

Thanks, Zuiks. I feel encouraged. I'll watch out for that pesky fragile cartridge bridge.
BTW i also have a Maitani/Olympus affection like you - Pen FT, FV, OM1, OM2 principally.

 

[Godfrey]

Hmm. I guess I have a different scale of what it means to have "crazy amounts of disposable income". Photography has always been an expensive endeavor for me. I just accept that premise as a basis and do what I want within the limits of my budget.

With Minox: About 25 years ago, I bought a bulk order (about two hundred rolls) of Minox APX25 and APX100 for $4@, and have stored it in the freezer ever since, taking out a couple of rolls at a time to use and process them. Back then, a new Minox daylight developing tank was $100, a used one was $20, and I acquired four or five cameras at an average price of about $75 apiece. Same kind of thing for all the accessories and supplies (like negative sheets, copy stands, tripod jigs, etc etc.) ...

I still have forty or fifty rolls of film in the freezer. I've saved up a hundred or so film cassettes if I ever need to slit and load film. The cameras are all in good working order. I should shoot some new photos... 😀

G