Question about buying a film Leica

[goamules]

He asked about getting an M6, so I'm not sure why most of the posts are about a Nikon SLR. Is the price "consistent" was asked. I would say if you look at the past few months of sales on ebay, then compare to KEH and a few online retailers, you'll know.

Will the price this period be the same price a year from now or 5 years from now? Almost impossible to tell. MANY camera types have gone through boom and bust periods since I got back into film in 2006. Niccas, Canon, Nikon and most other rangefinders peaked, then dropped much lower. The M2 and M3 was high a year ago. I suspect today it's lower. The M9 was high 5 years ago, I believe now it's dirt cheap.
These cameras are all cult items, they go up and down. If you are ok paying the going rate and perhaps having to sell it for 1/2 what you paid in a few years, go for it. Buying a Leica IIB for $400 in 2008 that is now worth $300 is one thing. Buying a multi thousand dollar used camera is another.

He also asked if there were things to look out for in "this or that version." I'm not sure if there are "versions" of an M6.

 

[mpaniagua]

I owned a Bessa R2 years ago when they first came out. I used it as a back-up to my M6. I supposed it was worth the ~$500 I paid for it back then, but in my opinion, not worth ~$1,000 or more today. The RF base is short and the RF patch does white out fairly easily.

Again - just my opinion.

Thanks for your answer Bill.

Yeah agree about the RF patch, both the M6 and the Bessa white out quite often. I have a better time with M5 patch. Sold the Bessa R2 some years ago. Still keep the Bessa T since its kinda fun to use 😀


Regards

Marcelo

 

[mpaniagua]

He asked about getting an M6, so I'm not sure why most of the posts are about a Nikon SLR. Is the price "consistent" was asked. I would say if you look at the past few months of sales on ebay, then compare to KEH and a few online retailers, you'll know.

Will the price this period be the same price a year from now or 5 years from now? Almost impossible to tell. MANY camera types have gone through boom and bust periods since I got back into film in 2006. Niccas, Canon, Nikon and most other rangefinders peaked, then dropped much lower. The M2 and M3 was high a year ago. I suspect today it's lower. The M9 was high 5 years ago, I believe now it's dirt cheap.
These cameras are all cult items, they go up and down. If you are ok paying the going rate and perhaps having to sell it for 1/2 what you paid in a few years, go for it. Buying a Leica IIB for $400 in 2008 that is now worth $300 is one thing. Buying a multi thousand dollar used camera is another.

He also asked if there were things to look out for in "this or that version." I'm not sure if there are "versions" of an M6.

I suppose there are a bunch of Nikon boys here 😀

On SLR, I'm more of an Olympus guy.

Oh there are versions (a lot fo them actually) but they are "special editions" and the like and not much affordable.



Regards

 

[Bill Blackwell]

He asked about getting an M6, so I'm not sure why most of the posts are about a Nikon SLR. Is the price "consistent" was asked. ...

Will the price this period be the same price a year from now or 5 years from now? Almost impossible to tell. ...
These cameras are all cult items, they go up and down. If you are ok paying the going rate and perhaps having to sell it for 1/2 what you paid in a few years, go for it. ... Buying a multi thousand dollar used camera is another.

He also asked if there were things to look out for in "this or that version." I'm not sure if there are "versions" of an M6.

He also said "... things to note that would push me in one or other direction?" That's why I suggested the SLRs as an alternative. The SLRs I alluded to are relatively small ("Leica small", I dare say).

But, on the whole, I do agree with your assessment about the "willingness to buy now" at these inflated prices. Who knows if these prices will hold?

Just a note that there was an M6 in the RFF Classifieds for around $2,100, but it's gone now. That's about as reasonable as it gets.

As to M6 "versions", I assumed the OP is referring to TTL vs "classic." OTOH, there are variations in the M6 classic staring with the original "Wetzlar" version, variations in engravings as the model went through its production cycle, two TI versions, and a number of special additions.

 

[jjcha]

It's hard for me to think about value, whether the price will hold or go up or down in the future. I would assume prices for relatively rare things that are not being made anymore would only go up.

But I'm new to this market, so what has the experience been in the past? I infer from others posts that they've seen boom and busts in demand for used Leicas?

Maybe it's me, but it's hard to see prices getting lower. Not like they're making them anymore -- I suppose there's the M-P, but that's obviously far more expensive than a M6.

On the demand side of things, I dunno, maybe buyers at these prices will fade away and no longer drive the market? What has happened in the past?

It's just kind of hard for me to see that though.

And even if you were willing to wait for that, it seems like an awful long time to be waiting...

Maybe I'm just jaded, but having bought an M8 when it came out, and more recently, an M10-P, I guess I'm used to completely overpaying for cameras which have depreciated far in excess of the price of a nice M6, even at the prices it demands nowadays. It's just the reality for those who like to shoot with the M system.

Having said all of this, I do have and enjoy using a Minolta CLE and Nikon FE (as others have very helpfully suggested in this thread), and as such, while I have my eye out for a nice M6, there's no rush to buy this particular toy/keepsake/trophy.

I dunno tho, my assumption had been it just seems foolish though to wait too long to try and get that good condition M6 for less than $2200-$2400. But like I said, others have far more experience than I.

 

[jukka]

I'm assuming you're referring to me here, since there are no other contributors in this thread with "M10" in their signature.

Maybe it seemed I singled you out. I was, in fact, reacting more to a general tendency common on online forums: People who pay top dollars for M10s are against buying an M6 with current prices because they were somewhat cheaper years earlier when they got theirs.

To them I say, digital camera is a terrible investment. I guess digital Leicas hold value better than most brands, but nonetheless, you're basically throwing your money away, no matter how good of a deal you've made.

Most importantly though, you should really not get any camera as an investment. I bought all mine to use.

So, in that sense it is funny to hear advices against getting an M6 now. Mind you, usually these advices do not concern the MP. Apparently buying a film MP is somehow considered fashionable among the online Leica aficionados (with almost double the price of an M6).

 

[aizan]

It’s not just limited supply that’s driving up prices. I think that’s only a small part of it, most of it being the fact that Gen Z is old enough to have entered the film market. Social media is inflating a bubble that I think will pop at the soonest in about three to five years when digital cameras finally go social, and up to 10 years when Gen Alpha reaches their twenties. New film cameras will be introduced that compete with old ones. The popular cameras won’t crash in value, they’ll just come down a bit. Nothing will happen soon, so you’ll have to grin and bear it.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Maybe it seemed I singled you out. I was, in fact, reacting more to a general tendency common on online forums: People who pay top dollars for M10s are against buying an M6 with current prices because they were somewhat cheaper years earlier when they got theirs.

To them I say, digital camera is a terrible investment. I guess digital Leicas hold value better than most brands, but nonetheless, you're basically throwing your money away, no matter how good of a deal you've made.

Most importantly though, you should really not get any camera as an investment. I bought all mine to use.

So, in that sense it is funny to hear advices against getting an M6 now. Mind you, usually these advices do not concern the MP. Apparently buying a film MP is somehow considered fashionable among the online Leica aficionados (with almost double the price of an M6).

All true. But to be clear, my reluctance to recommend an M6 at these prices is based on the fact, well, that it's a film camera. While I would agree no matter what you're paying for an M6 today it would be a far better "investment" than a comparable new Leica digital, film has a particular "dirty" look compared to digital and it's expensive to process. I suppose based on this I would assume younger film shooters driving current prices of film cameras up will eventually get older, "see the light," and move to digital, causing prices to drop back to near prior levels.

Also, if the OP doesn't already have a stable of M-mount lenses, he might prefer to go with something just as usable, but easier on the wallet.

 

[David Hughes]

He was shocked by the way prices have gone up but that applies to most good film cameras these days. Look at all the point and shoots you could buy a while ago using a coin or two that now cost hundreds...

But he decided on a Leica M6 and I can see why, it's at the top of the tree with the M7 and he can probably see a good reason for deciding on the M6 and not the M7.

So let's help and not try to divert him into other cameras that just don't mean a thing as they ain't got that swing, to coin a phrase.

As for consistency, prices vary because it's a secondhand market and some sellers are dealers, some are novices and there's a lot in between and, as I pointed out about buying before Christmas, there's other factors confusing the issue.

Regards, David

 

[splitimageview]

It's a pretty simple equation: supply is fixed, demand is rising.

There are many inexpensive ways to photograph, but there are a limited number of ways to photograph with a metered Leica rangefinder.😀

 

[andrew00]

Hey y'all, thanks for all the helpful suggestions, I've been doing my research from reading the replies.

Yeah, I can afford the M6, it's not a case of that, it's more whether they're currently at a bubble high and if I might expect them to drop or if that's the price from now on. Basically, I'm thinking long term keep so is it worth waiting or just jump onboard.

I did have an M3 before so I'm familiar with the whole thing, limitations etc. I have been considering an M4, the lack of meter is a shame but it is roughly 60% of the M6 price. Then again you can add nearly £250 to buy a new voigtlander hot shoe meter, not that I'd nec go new but point. being it's a wedge either way it seems.

M5 is interesting in all areas except size and weight. The needle meter is cool, I had an old Olympus SLR that had one and it's fine. But I was looking for something small and light if possible. I don't know if practically it would make a difference, interesting to hear anyone's thoughts?

I am still considering a SLR like the Nikon FE or FM3a or something, which would be much cheaper. It's a good option and one I'm def considering. Same with other things like the Hexar or Bessa etc.

I'd prefer a Leica as I know I like them and I'm thinking long-term. But I am open to other options. It does seem the prices of all film cameras are really high now, understandably I guess.

The fashionable aspect is crazy though. I used to have a Contax T3, think it was around £300 to buy, roughly 15 years ago. Now it's £2k, crazy.

 

[splitimageview]

I don’t see prices going down, so it’s more a matter of whether you want to park your money in an M6 for a while. Or forever, perhaps. 🙂

For comparison I just bought a mostly perfect Pentax ME Super for $30, from a well-known dealer, with a six month warranty.

 

[Bill Clark]

All of my Leica cameras have no electronics. I haven’t used a flash with any of my Leica cameras. I’ll have to try using a flash but I used Pocket Wizards to get the flash off camera.

I own a hand held light meter.

Try looking for a M4-2 as they sometimes go for a little less. I own a M4-2 and it’s a fine camera. Mine has the frame lines that include a 28mm lens. Someone before me had them installed. I do own a M3 and that is a great camera as well,

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Small, light and Leica suggests a Leica CL to me and it has needle metering in the VF.

They were new in the shops when I bought mine and I still have it and use it and send it in for servicing from time to time. Bear in mind that that means I will have a different opinion of it to most people. I've also the M2, M4 and M6 in the stable, if that's any help. And I use the M4 with the Leica MR4 meter on top...


Regards, David


PS The main advantage is that you need only 2 lenses to have the full outfit; the Summicron-C 40mm and the Elmar-C 90mm are good lenses. Erwin Puts gives the 40mm's performance as somewhere between the Summicron 35 type III and IV, btw

 

[Nitroplait]

Neither the financial crisis a decade ago nor the current hit on global economy appear to make a dent in the upward moving price of things like vintage watches and high end film cameras etc.
As much as I hate talking about "investment" when it comes to a hobby, I don't think the "bubble" will burst in foreseeable future - or rather; if it bursts, it will likely be due to events in the world economy that will have far more impact on your economy that whatever you stand to loose on your Leica investment.

 

[splitimageview]

Yes, I prefer the CL to an M6, all other factors being equal (I.e., clean viewfinder, good rf patch, working meter, etc.) There are the usual naysayers who claim that most CLs have already failed or soon will, blah blah blah. And the purists who scoff at being made in Japan...

But a perfect CL can be had for far less, with a lens, and it’s much easier to load, has a much preferred needle instead of diodes, an ergo-designed shutter speed dial and speeds in the viewfinder.

 

[helen.HH]

just buy a meterless Leica
OR
A Nikon S2,S3, With a lens for way under $1000.00
YAY to rangefinders !

there is a wonderful app on the iphone called 'LUX'
easy to use, at your fingertips if needed

I just shoot without a meter...look at light, get a feel, when You do it often enough your mind naturally knows your various perimeters...
aperture to shutter speeds and as the day goes from light to dark...
a Fun game to keep You on your toes[/QUOTE]

 

[css9450]

I was, in fact, reacting more to a general tendency common on online forums: People who pay top dollars for M10s are against buying an M6 ....

Seriously, that's an actual trend you've noticed? More than once?

 

[splitimageview]

"A Nikon S2,S3, With a lens for way under $1000.00
"

😀

 

[raid]

For becoming a camera snob in style: Leica M3 and Rigid Summicron. A "perfect pair".
The Kardashians don't know better, so they got a Pentax K1000.