R or R2

[Stephen82]

I have been intrigued with rangefinders, specifically Leica. Now that I have become aware of the Bessa rangefinders that I may actually be able to afford, my intrigue may soon turn into action as I am considering the purchase of one.

Camerquest has an R w/35 lens for $475. I can get an R2 w/50 lens & adapter for closer to $900. I have read about the R having problems with film winding jamming and alignment problems so I would appreciate some feedback on purchasing a R as opposed to an R2.

Is the R a dependable quality camera? Or should I shell out the extra money for an R2? I would likely carry the camera on a regular basis and I value dependablilty and durability.

All information and feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[pvdhaar]

Re: R or R2

Camerquest has an R w/35 lens for $475. I can get an R2 w/50 lens & adapter for closer to $900.

Mmm.. that's $425 difference, that could be put to great use. Like for instance a second lens, or film&processing.

If the R2 would exhaust your bank account, then I'd carefully consider. If you'd have no money left, or no plans for expensive M-mount lenses, there's no purpose in buying more than you need. Besides, are you absolutely sure you feel comfortable working with rangefinders?

 

[former member]

I just copied this from Stephen Gandy's Cameraquest.com site, and it looks like he knocked another $50 off:
================================
Bessa R with 35/2.5 C Type I Lens $425 SALE
================================

It is hard to beat that price even if you were buying used, vintage equipment. For comparison, I paid $375 for my Leica 35mm F2.8 Summaron with "Eyes" (changes the 50mm lines to 35mm FOV) for my M3.

So I will point out the low road: You are new to RF photography, $425 is hard to beat for a new camera and new lens. If you do not like it and keep it in good-looking condition, you could re-sell it for a good fraction of that cost. If you really like it, you can buy an R2 or Leica later on and get an adapter to use the lens on the new camera. You can buy Leica-Thread-Mount (LTM) lenses and use them on the Bessa R without an adapter. Adapters run $35 each. Older Leica and Canon lenses are not expensive; Francisco and I both use uncoated Leica Elmar 9cm F4 lenses picked up for ~$50. A Canon 50mm F1.8 lens in LTM will run less than $150. I was lucky and found a 5cm f1.4 Nikkor at a camera shop for <$100. So, for under $650 you could get the camera, 35mm, 50mm (used), and 90mm (used) and have a great setup for RF photography.

I use a Canon 7 for my main LTM camera. It is worth a look as an alternative; but is a 40-year old camera. It is built like a tank; but a good CLA alone will run $130.

 

[rover]

I agree with posts above and will only add my personal experience. I have an R and am very happy with it. I keep the camera in the bottom of its never-ready case and never have a concern about the poly-carb. body. I researched the camera before buying as you are and came to the conclusion that the complaints about the rangefinder alignment were limited and over exaggerated. You will hear more bad than good on the internet about things like this. If you buy new from a reputable dealer like Cameraquest you should be fine. If you do tend to change lenses often the R2 with the M mount will be much more convenient, but you can live with an LTM mount too. I think both cameras will make you happy, if you can find a retailer with them, go and handle the two and decide which one you will be happier with.

 

[Stephen82]

Thanks for the replies. Reading through them helped me see that I problably would be best served at this time with the R. I should soon have some expendable money that would cover the purchase price on the R and one lens.

I have never used a rangefinder so I am not sure how much I will like it, and I probably would not purchase many lenses in the future. While I would likely use the camera alot, it would share duty time with my 4 SLR's, so I think I would be happy with a one lens rangefinder outfit (I never feel limited when I carry my Pentax ME with just a 50mm lens).

I don't care about the shutter noise because I usually don't need to be discreet with the subjects I shoot. I'm not concerned so much about the poly body since 3 of my SLR's are poly - though nothing beats the feel of an metal manual camera.

I'll keep thinking and reading on these forums.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[mothra]

I have an R2, and I love it. It is annoying about the loud shutter, but I can deal with that.

If you can afford it and want to buy M-mount lenses, go with the R2.

You can get an R2 & CV 35/2.5 Classic from Cameraquest for about $700, or with a CV 50/2.5 for about $760. An M-mount to LTM adapter is $50, but you only have to buy that once.

Or you could buy the body and the new 35/2.5 Pancake for $788, and that lens is M-mount, so no adaptor necessary.

Still more expensive than the R, but not twice as much.

 

[bmattock]

I have the R, and I agonized over the decision as well. But I've been well-pleased! My R is solid, well-made, and does not feel 'plasticky' as it has been accused of being. My rangefinder is dead-on accurate, and nothing has ever jammed on it.

I like older lenses, so LTM is great for me. They're a lot cheaper than M-mount lenses, also. And I can always go to an R2 body later - and the adapter(s) to mount my LTM lenses on it. So if I ever decide to upgrade to an R2, my only lost investment is the body (which is pretty cheap overall, and I could sell it for nearly what I paid for it).

I also don't find my R noisier than most SLRs, but it is noisier than a leaf-shutter rangefinder! Still, there is no mirror slap, so I find it pretty quiet compared to my SLRs. But then again, my SLRs are not 'modern', they're quite old. Hehehehe.

Bottom line - I love my Bessa R. It's my favorite camera, and I use it nearly everywhere.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Doug]

Bill brings up a good point about the lens mounts... In my case I already had two M-mount cameras (M2 and CLE) and three M-mount lenses (35, 40, 90). So when I got my Bessa-L it was incidentally as a "rear lens cap" for the 15 and 25mm CV lenses... which with adaptors could also be used with the M bodies.

Then, when I became interested in another Bessa, my attention went to the M-mount models for reasons of greater flexibility, and I ended up with a Bessa-T.

Where you end up can depend on where you've been. 🙂

 

[Chrischung]

Re: R or R2

Is the R a dependable quality camera? Or should I shell out the extra money for an R2? I would likely carry the camera on a regular basis and I value dependablilty and durability.

All information and feedback is appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve [/B]

R2 is better because which can mount with M lens and Screw mount lens by a adapter.

Chris

 

[That Guy]

Having never had a (useable) rangefinder before (a couple junk buys from garage sales and ebay), I didn't want to spend a lot up front. So the R fit the bill. I wasn't too worried about lens selection because I was only planning for a few lenses and I wanted to stop switching mid-shoot so often anyway. Zoom with my feet, if you will. So the LTM didn't bother me.

Anyway, having used the camera for a few months now, and being used to the old and heavy brass chassis on my SLR, I haven't been disappointed with the "feel" of the R. The LTM takes some getting used to if you've never used it before. My RF is spot on. Regarding the jammed gear train, I take my time and pay attention to the shutter speed (listen for the second click). And I haven't had any problems.

If you're still worried about cost, you might consider an older fixed length RF. Less than a $100 should sort you out. And there's still plenty to choose from. Just be aware of the battery.

 

[former member]

Well I am a sucker for classic glass, but how many fast Leica lenses go for under $150? Add $80 for a CLA at Essex to get the fog out. All added up, about the same as a Canon 50mm F1.4, but less than the Nikkor, Summilux, and Nokton. So now I have the Canon, Nikkor, and Summarit for the Canon 7. Maybe the Nokton in S-Mount...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3807756178

 

[ZeissFan]

The Bessa-R is a decent camera, and after handling many, many cameras in the past two years, I've come to the conclusion that the lenses probably are better than the camera.

The camera body is adequate, though I have some concerns about long-term durability. If you're careful about how you use the camera, it should hold up.

If you're the type who tends to be rough on a camera, then expect the body to look rather shabby within a few years.

Example, all of the markings appear to be either decals or painted on, not engraved. I've very easy on my gear, and even here the "90" on the frame selector is wearing away.

The rangefinder is a different experience from an SLR, and some people simply can't adapt to it. The advantage and disadvantage is that everything appears to be in focus all of the time, except for the tiny rangefinder patch.

Here's my mini-site on the Bessa-R. Overall, a very nice camera at an attractive price. This is a case where I probably would suggest buying a new body, rather than used.

http://host.fptoday.com/melek/bessa-r.html

 

[GeneW]

Hello, Mike. Glad to see you on RFF! It was your online article that got me really thinking about getting a rangefinder in the first place. That, plus a session with a borrowed M3. I thought hard about getting a Bessa, but ended up purchasing a good-condition Leica CL which I enjoy because it's so tiny I can easily tuck it in my camera bag with my other gear.

Very nice article and I think it captures the fun of using a rangefinder!

Gene

 

[ZeissFan]

Gene, well, you know, it's always fun to talk cameras, no matter where the venue (with the exception of the newsgroups, which I've pretty much abandoned).

How do you like the CL? I like its size and have thought about buying about.

About two years ago, glamour photographer Peter Gowland was selling two of his Leica CL cameras. I thought about buying one but didn't. Don't recall why. I'm sure that I bought something else though.

I bought a friend's M6 about 1 1/2 years ago. It's a very nice camera.

The Cosina Voigtlanders are nice, inexpensive cameras. Overall fit and finish are very good though not great and could stand improvement in several areas.

 

[GeneW]

How do you like the CL? I like its size and have thought about buying about.
...
I bought a friend's M6 about 1 1/2 years ago. It's a very nice camera.

I like the CL quite a bit. It's tiny but solid and if you can get one with a 40mm Summicron that's one of Leica's sweetest lenses. The meter still works in mine but the CL's have a rep for failing meters and I don't expect mine to last. I won't have it fixed when it goes -- I don't mind using a hand meter all that much.

I've added a CV 90mm Lanthar and 21mm Skopar and I can easily tuck the CL with 40mm plus both supplementary lenses into my kit bag alongside my digital gear.

I'm sure the M6 is a dandy. Is it heavier than your Bessa? I used a friend's M3 for a week and found it really nice to handle.

Gene