Request: 50 Apo-Summicron w/Film

Samouraï

Samouraï

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Hey guys, I tried a forum search and couldn't figure anything on the subject (though I'm sure it's been brought up before): has anyone used the Apo-Summicron (50) on 135 film?
I'm just really curious to see how it might behave compared to some of the classic Summicrons. Colour-wise especially. On BW film too (gentler contrast on digital is something I've noticed in comparison to things like the planar Loxia 50 to the Sony cameras).

And what is the consensus about this lens at this point in time, now that the dust has settled? Thanks for the information and entertaining my questions even though I'm sure something like this has been brought up before.
Any Apo-Summicron owners/users want to chime in?
 
Problem with this kind of cutting edge performance, all your tools need to be trimmed for max. performance to be able to realize the possible performance of that lens. Digital M bodies allow pixel peeping, lots of test shots and wide open you will easily see if the RF needs adjustment, the sensor needs position fine tuning and the lenses need to be matched to the body. All issues that I had never discovered shooting film with my M6/MP/M3.

It's just not so obvious when you shoot film - unless you also do test shots and have these printed big. I'm not sure if inspection of the negatives with loupe will be sufficient to show potential issues.

So good luck finding any [technical] performance relevant shots on film.
 
I tested one in New York a few weeks ago, both on a M240 and my thin filter stack A7. I came away very tempted, or at least more tempted by it than I expected myself to be.

The APO cron is very sharp wide open. Sharper than any other 50mm I've used in the corners. Somewhat off-center the F2 performance is visibly ahead of my Summilux ASPH, if memory serves. The lack of field curvature makes the lens easier to focus-and-recompose on an RF body. Optimal sharpness is of course a non-issue with either lens on a mirrorless body.

On film I'm not sure, but I suspect that the bokeh will be better than the old Summicrons at least, although I really don't see the contrast/resolution advantage being necessary for film. The lens is pushing the very edge of 24 megapixel sensors as-is...I would really like to test center sharpness with an A7rII to see how good the APO cron actually is.

Operation-wise it's an amazing experience. Focus is as smooth as my 75mm Cron ASPH, which I think has the best focus ring "resistance" in all of my M lenses.
 
icebear said:
Problem with this kind of cutting edge performance, all your tools need to be trimmed for max. performance to be able to realize the possible performance of that lens.
Click to expand...
That's really more to do with the sharpness of this lens, though, right? I'm really more interested in some of its other qualities. Bokeh quality, contrast falloff (which is a HUGE bullet point for this lens, which its designer went on about in some length in an interview I read on the lens), colour, distortion, corner performance. These are more exciting than sharpness to me, and I feel as though they'd translate to film rather well (as you don't have to worry about the filter stack on the sensor, or the microlenses, etc.).

YYV_146 said:
I tested one in New York a few weeks ago, both on a M240 and my thin filter stack A7. I came away very tempted, or at least more tempted by it than I expected myself to be...
Click to expand...

I've read that the quality of the lens is so clear that it's barely noticeable. It doesn't have a strong personality, but that is also one of its best qualities (if you want for that kind of a look). I've looking at the Planar Loxia 50, which is apparently an amazing lens on the A7 bodies. I just don't like the color and contrast of this lens compared to the Apo-Summicron from what I've seen in tests (I actually prefer the 55FE Sonnar). From what I've seen, the Apo-Sumicron appears very warm compared to these other lenses.

furcafe said:
This thread on the Leica Camera Forum might be helpful:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245731-apo-50-film-images/
Click to expand...

Woah, there are some actual film samples linked there. Neat. Thanks.

---

Also, I wonder how long this lens will remain on top. If curved sensors come along, are we going to see simplified designs that perform better than the Apo? I'm guessing we will. Tech has been moving pretty fast lately.
I don't have the money to buy one of these lenses, though maybe if I sold all of my gear I could grab one. Not really a smart investment. But it sure is interesting to think about. Apparently the manufacturing is why they are so expensive, tolerances are extremely tight. The glass isn't really that exotic (the designer said). I'd be terrified of jostling it. Heck, I'd be afraid to shoot it without a glass protector over the end of it.

Here's the interview I read. Pretty interesting: http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-50mm-APO-Summicron-M-ASPH-f-20.html
 
I have one but I shoot mostly TRI-X or M240 with it.

Here are a couple of TRI-X

I like to shoot as wide open as I can with a .6 ND filter. I just remembered I did shoot a roll of Portra 160 last weekend yet to be processed. I'll add them when I have them.

On these the Camera is a Leica M-A

70880024-Edit.jpg by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr

This was at dusk, no filter, wide open @ 1/60

70880036.jpg by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr

M240

L1000996-Edit.jpg by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr

Real Beauty by Jim Crutcher, on Flickr

Jim
 
Thanks for those samples. How much post-processing? Grain added?
I'd love to see the Portra 160 when you get the chance.
 
I'll send the Portra out on Monday. No grain added. The theater had very little processing. The Sign lady more processing. The MA does not have a meter and I'm practicing with sunny 16. I missed her by 1 1/2 stops. When I brought it back to normal the grain was too much so I actually used Lightroom noise adjustment on her.

I have some awesome Bokeh samples however all digital. I may have a shot or two on the protra.
 
The images on the first page of that l-camera-forum thread are laughable. Looks like it was scanned by a flatbed, and not even a newer V700 or something. Anyone could get better resolution out of a $10 point and shoot film camera and an actual proper dedicated film scanner. The bottleneck is the analog to digital conversion.

Anyway, I don't know why anyone would spend $7k on an APO Summicron to use primarily on film. Sure it's marginally better, but you better have a $15,000 scanner to take advantage of it.
 
Corran said:
The images on the first page of that l-camera-forum thread are laughable. Looks like it was scanned by a flatbed, and not even a newer V700 or something. Anyone could get better resolution out of a $10 point and shoot film camera and an actual proper dedicated film scanner. The bottleneck is the analog to digital conversion.

Anyway, I don't know why anyone would spend $7k on an APO Summicron to use primarily on film. Sure it's marginally better, but you better have a $15,000 scanner to take advantage of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those Japanese samples aren't very well-scanned. And as for film with the APO Summicron, it's a curiosity that I haven't seen discussed much (if at all). If you have the lens, why not. It's fun.

---

And jcrutcher, thanks for the extra shot (especially with the ability to see that bokeh and colour).
 
Samouraï said:
Hey guys, I tried a forum search and couldn't figure anything on the subject (though I'm sure it's been brought up before): has anyone used the Apo-Summicron (50) on 135 film?
I'm just really curious to see how it might behave compared to some of the classic Summicrons. Colour-wise especially. On BW film too (gentler contrast on digital is something I've noticed in comparison to things like the planar Loxia 50 to the Sony cameras).

And what is the consensus about this lens at this point in time, now that the dust has settled? Thanks for the information and entertaining my questions even though I'm sure something like this has been brought up before.
Any Apo-Summicron owners/users want to chime in?
Click to expand...

Hi Samurai, thank you for this old post : I have exactly the same expectations as you. But I did not find clear replies yet. Did you get some, from that time ?

Here is the best film image I found for this lens :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lgf55...ti5-CcZwPS-BXCzRw-BN3eDt-Cdtbi1-ChgRi1-B8UVkC
 
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