Some info with regards to wax seals on M

[Marc-A.]

Originally Posted by -vin-

where are these wax seals?Read post #10 🙂

Ok to make it clear here it is.

I still have the L seal. Don't know if it's original or a fake one. I suspect it's original.
edit: Nope, after checking, it's a recessed L, so serviced by Leica.

 

[Marc-A.]

Oops too ... Nice picture of the seal Rico ;-)

 

[Laforet]

Yes - M5 has a seal.

I agree, however IIRC one could take the top plate off an M5 without touching the seal. If the sense of "originality" is what you are after the seal mean a little.

BTW, nice job rico, most people didnt see that L seal came in two flavors..

 

[colyn]

I think the wax seal was gone with the M4-2. Anyone know about the M5? FYI, here is my M4 with DAG imprint:

My M5 has the raised L seal

 

[Xmas]

Leitz UK had a letter forgotten, I'll have a look next.

Noel

Florished upper case 'B'

 

[vrgard]

This is very interesting. My 1957 Leica M3 has the larger (than the serial number) M3 engraved on the top plate and I have always understood this to mean that it was manufactured in Canada. And it bears a wax seal. However, rather than displaying the "C" seal which would indicate Canadian manufacture, it bears the raised "L" seal thus apparently indicating German Leitz manufacture. So, which is it? Was my camera made in Canada or Germany?

Thanks,
Randy

 

[Xmas]

If you sent it for a majot repair they did not replace the origional letter but used their own seal.

So it was last in ge for a major or manufacture

Noel

 

[vrgard]

Sorry, Noel, but I don't follow your explanation (assuming your posting was in response to my inquiry). You said that they did not replace the original seal yet then you say they used their own seal. That sounds contradictory to me in that I don't understand how they could both use their own seal and yet not replace the original seal. Perhaps I'm just not following what you are saying?

Also, as I understand it, if the camera was sent to Germany for repair/service at some point, then the raised "L" seal would be replaced by a recessed "L" seal. Yet my camera still has the raised L seal which, again, as I understand it since I'm not expert on these things, indicates that it has not been opened.

So I am still unclear as to whether my M3 was made in Canada or Germany. And no, I don't care from a useability (nor a collector) standpoint as the camera works great and I am very happy using it. But it would be nice to know. As they say, "inquiring minds want to know!"

Thanks,
Randy

 

[Chris101]

... I am still unclear as to whether my M3 was made in Canada or Germany. And no, I don't care from a useability (nor a collector) standpoint as the camera works great and I am very happy using it. But it would be nice to know. As they say, "inquiring minds want to know!" ...

My 4p says "Made by Leitz Canada" right on the back.

 

[vrgard]

My 4p says "Made by Leitz Canada" right on the back.

Thanks, Chris, but I don't think the M3's made in Canada bore any such markings.

Anyone else hazard a guess to my question?

 

[colyn]

Thanks, Chris, but I don't think the M3's made in Canada bore any such markings.

I have a Canadian made M3 which is currently at DAG that had the raised L seal..

 

[Tom A]

The canadian built M3's and M2's did have a slightly larger serial number size on the top-plate. There were a few that actually stated Made in Midland,Canada on the top, but these were very few (probably less than 100). I suspect that the seal at the time was the same as the German seal. The camera was made by Leitz, be it in Germany or Canada. It is possible that the raised or imprinted L indicated wether the camera had been serviced by Leica at some time. (Raised L for never opened and a counter sunk one for a factory service in Wetzlar/Midland). I dont know if this is the case, but some years ago I heard a speculation about it and it does make sense.
I am always worried about these seals. When I find a nice M2 with the original seal intact, that means that this camera is at least 40 years old and has never had a service! I deduct $150 from the price for a CLA immideately!

 

[vrgard]

I have a Canadian made M3 which is currently at DAG that had the raised L seal..

Thanks, Colyn, for that further bit of information. Yours sounds like mine. Can you elaborate just a bit? For example, since yours had the raised L seal that would, according to the first post in this thread, indicate it was manufactured in Germany. So how do you know yours was actually made in Canada?

EDIT: Okay, I missed noticing Tom's post when I posted the above remarks/question. Tom's explanation about the larger M3 engraving alongside the serial number correlates with my understanding that mine (and your's Colyn) was made in Canada. And Tom's explanation about the raised "L" being used, to denote made by Leica/Leitz regardless of whether the camera was made in Canada or Germany, certainly sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Nikon Bob]

vrgard

It could be that your camera or major components were produced in Canada with the final assembly in Germany if it is marked made in Germany. If the final assembly was in Canada then I assume it would say Midland.

Bob

 

[colyn]

Thanks, Colyn, for that further bit of information. Yours sounds like mine. Can you elaborate just a bit? For example, since yours had the raised L seal that would, according to the first post in this thread, indicate it was manufactured in Germany. So how do you know yours was actually made in Canada?

EDIT: Okay, I missed noticing Tom's post when I posted the above remarks/question. Tom's explanation about the larger M3 engraving alongside the serial number correlates with my understanding that mine (and your's Colyn) was made in Canada. And Tom's explanation about the raised "L" being used, to denote made by Leica/Leitz regardless of whether the camera was made in Canada or Germany, certainly sounds reasonable to me.

If you look up the serial number it should be listed as ELC meaning E. Leitz Canada. Mine is from the batch made in 1955

 

[colyn]

vrgard

It could be that your camera or major components were produced in Canada with the final assembly in Germany if it is marked made in Germany. If the final assembly was in Canada then I assume it would say Midland.

Bob

Not all Canadian made Leicas were labeled Midland. In fact most had the usual Germany markings.

 

[vrgard]

If you look up the serial number it should be listed as ELC meaning E. Leitz Canada. Mine is from the batch made in 1955

Thanks, Colyn. Hmmm, according to the Cameraquest website and the serial number on my camera, mine was made in 1957 but was not made in Canada. Yet the M3 engraving is definitely larger than the serial number engraving which is why I always thought that it was a Canadian made M3. Sheesh, now I'm back to being confused about where my camera was made. 😕

-Randy

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Very interesting; thanks for the thread.

My M2 has a raised L ("cursive"), while my "classic" M6 doesn't have a seal, just the exposed screw.

 

[colyn]

Thanks, Colyn. Hmmm, according to the Cameraquest website and the serial number on my camera, mine was made in 1957 but was not made in Canada. Yet the M3 engraving is definitely larger than the serial number engraving which is why I always thought that it was a Canadian made M3. Sheesh, now I'm back to being confused about where my camera was made. 😕

-Randy

The M3 on all camera is slightly larger than the serial number but the ELC M3's were somewhat larger..

 

[Nikon Bob]

Not all Canadian made Leicas were labeled Midland. In fact most had the usual Germany markings.

Sorry, I did not mean it should say Midland only. All my intent was to say that country the camera was finally assembled in should be indicated. I guess there are various rules for how much of the final assembly has to be done in a country in order to have it labeled as built in that country. I think I have seen various markings, from photos, with ELC, Midland,and Made in Canada as opposed to Made in Germany etc. So it may be possible that a large number of components that were made in Canada had the final assembly done in Germany to qualify for Made in Germany status. Anything is possible in international trade.

Bob