The Rigid Summiron : different versions?

[raid]

I have a 50/2 rigid Summicron from the 1950's. I recall aing read some thread at RFF in which a gentleman pointed out tht the Rigid Summicron changed in its optical design. Has anyone here found another thread in which such a fact/claim was replicated? It seems that the "earlier version" had 7 elements while the "later version" has 6 elements. Could it be that the earlier version was a transition lens from collapsible to rigid?

This is my alltime favorite lens, so I am curious about its history.

 

[BLKRCAT]

I thought that there was some coating changes after a certain serial number. Maybe at the same time they took in/threw out an element? I cant remember the exact serial number. My rigid summicron had the earlier coating which didn't hold up to the test of time. Maybe that will put you on the right track?

 

[raid]

There would have to be a new design for fewer elements.
My 1957 version lens is still in mintish state and with excellent coating.
Maybe someone who has taken apart several such lenses can help us out.
I don't know if Sherry Krauter or Don Goldberg would be willing to disuss such an issue.

 

[ferider]

The rigid (SOSIC / 11818) and DR Summicron (SOMNI / 11918) remained the same 7 element design from 1956 - 1968, Raid. The formula and coatings might have been slightly tweaked over the years, but the basic 7 element configuration remained the same.

The next Summicron ("v3", 11817, 1969 - 1981) has 6 elements, and very early lens barrels look similar to the rigid. It is also sometimes called "Rigid 2" - maybe this is what you mean ?

Roland.

 

[raid]

Brian said it differently, Roland. Maybe he was wrong, but he has taken apart so many lenses.

 

[Rogrund]

Maybe this can help you, Raid. It seems like the third version had six elements.

 

[Ronald M]

There was a collapsible, two versions of DR/Rigid optics, 1969 and current.

At one point, I had both versions of the DR/Rigid in front of me. The flatness of the front element was obviously different. Also two versions of the DR eyes was required depending on if you had an early or late model..

 

[raid]

Hi Ronald,
This is what I saw in some thread here. Do you know at which serial number (supposely) the lens changed in design?

 

[ferider]

Brian said it differently, Roland. Maybe he was wrong, but he has taken apart so many lenses.

Brian sometimes calls v3 "Rigid 2", Raid. See here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88852, for instance.

 

[raid]

Could be. Still, there may be some chance that he meant the lens that followed the collapsible. I will have to ask him.

 

[ferider]

As a reference, might I suggest you look into [1] as well ?

[1] "Leica An Illustrated History: Volume II - Lenses", James L. Lager, Lager Limited Editions, 1994, ISBN 978-0963697325.

 

[x-ray]

Since 68 I've owned the collapsible, rigid, DR, 1969 version and a 1980 version with the rounded tab. The collapsible I'm not certain about but the Rigid and DR were the same with the 1969 black barrel German made was distinctly different. I seem to recall it had one less element as mentioned. It's my understanding all versions after that were different than the 69. Those later versions were all the same optically.

My favorite was the Black German 69.

 

[Dez]

I think this is the info you need. I have always wondered about all the different versions people keep tossing around. This table seems to sum it up pretty well.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50mm-summicron-comparison-table.htm

Cheers,
Dez

 

[raid]

Hi Dez,
I have seen this chart before. It may not address special production versions, like the above mentioned 1969 black version.

 

[Erik van Straten]

This might help you, Raid, makes fascinating reading:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...n_Page#M_Series_Lenses_.26_Camera_Accessories

Erik.

 

[raid]

Thanks for the link, Erik.

 

[GaryLH]

Here is some shots from my iPhone showing the v2 a 7 element and v3 and 4 being 6 element design from Mr. Puts lens compendium. He does allude to possibility of a transitional design in the way he worded his info later. I think it is ok to post the lens diagrams from the book.

Not sure if this is what u were looking for raid.

Gary

 

[raid]

Thank you Gary.
I am wondering if the first Rigid Summicron has more tjan one optical design or not.

 

[GaryLH]

Thank you Gary.
I am wondering if the first Rigid Summicron has more tjan one optical design or not.

I c I thought u were talking about second to newer.

Both the v1 and 2 are 7 element designs according to Mr. Puts. But mentions that it is a different formula design calling it a LaK9 type.. And an increase in the air lens lens distance between the first and second lens shape from 0.28 to 1.52. Difference in shape of second lens shape as well.

Within 1957 v2 was the introduction of the dr version but he says these actually had identical optical cells.

Gary

 

[GaryLH]

The v1 optical diagram


Gary