Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
I think the discontinuation of the M7 is also part of the reason for the inflation in prices of used M bodies. People are realizing that Leica is probably not going to make film cameras forever.
What's going on with used prices?
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Calzone
Gear Whore #1
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
ummm reading this post prompted me to stop selling my Leica M stuff 🙂. Sold some of them to finance some medium format repairs and equipment.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
The Leica man cares not about such simple things as money..or market ups and downs..
He just buys anyway...lol..
He just buys anyway...lol..
Huss
Veteran
If you think an FE = M7, then a Leica RE > M7 for only $100 more.
Huss
Veteran
Except it was Brie Larson .
Huss
Veteran
That’s because the Konica has a terrible reputation for reliability. Hamish at 35mmc.com mentioned this before he bought one thinking it was just one of those things blown out of proportion. Then his too bricked.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
1. Film usage is on the rise;
2. The comparative price of a new Leica film cameras.
M7 prices are also on the rise. Not that long ago I bought one for US$1,700. Today they run for as much as twice that!
JeffS7444
Well-known
I get the sense (not backed up by anything but my own observations) that genuine demand from a younger audience is driving higher prices of Leica M6, Contax G and premium compacts such as the Nikon 35ti. But other Leica models such as M2, M3, M4, M5, not so much.
M6 "classic" prices seem to be up about $300 right now, but too soon to know if that's just a short-term blip.
I wonder how much is being driven by environmental concerns: Finding one's hobbies in items which were manufactured decades ago is a form of recycling!
M6 "classic" prices seem to be up about $300 right now, but too soon to know if that's just a short-term blip.
I wonder how much is being driven by environmental concerns: Finding one's hobbies in items which were manufactured decades ago is a form of recycling!
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Just to be clear, and for those outside of the US, this is true for maybe the top 10% of the country. Most of the rest, this is either delusional dreams ("temporarily embarrassed millionaires") or simply has no relation to their lives. The economy continues to bifurcate at a rapid pace. I think even Veblen would be shocked.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Jeff,
I find your observations as telling.
It kind of makes sense because the M6 has a built in meter, is newer, and has less of a "vintage premium."
If your observation is correct, that in fact it is a new younger generation alone that is responsible for this spike, maybe/perhaps all by themselves, then I can see why the M6 stands out from the pack as well as the other premium compact cameras.
Now we wait for these newbies to discover medium format to make our "killing." LOL. Kind of predictable.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Dan,
Your point is well taken.
About half the population in the U.S. by one report today owns no stock, so for about half the country there is no wealth effect.
While in the top 10% the incomes are high, depending on which city you live in, you might not be able to afford buying a home due to the costs of living.
Overall though I use the top 20% of incomes as a gauge of wealth, because household incomes at this level generally have more income than they need, can max out their 401K's and save, and have disposable income to buy luxury goods.
One Money Manager calls the top 20% "the Protected Class."
"A rising tide does not raise all ships," as they say.
Cal
Ionex56
Member
Older models will always be discontinued, digital or film, as repair parts run out.
They're still producing film Ms: the MP and MA, and I believe they will continue to do so. My guess is because Leica no longer has the capability to repair the M7, coupled with the fact that the M7 is electronic and will be more prone to failure over time, they made the decision to discontinue it. Same with their digital Ms, like what they are doing with the M240 right now.
With each discontinuation creates a price gap. A new MP or MA goes for nearly $5k with tax. Used market prices for the two fetches a hefty $3.5k+
When people are looking for used Ms, this is not the price some people are willing to pay (for a film M at least). Hence the reason to turn to the M2/M3/M4 etc., increasing demand. The rest is history 😀
Huss
Veteran
I dont think it’s that at all. The vast majority of people interested in film Ms want a fully mechanical kamera. The demand for new M7s dried up while everyone was buying MPs and MAs. They wanted a traditional Leica not something that needed batteries.
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
All the M-style camera's are up in value, because for the most part, no one is making them anymore (Ya, I know that leica technically still makes them, but at the price they want for them, you're always better off getting a used M these days).
You might also have noticed that Zeiss zm and Bessa bodies are up in value too. Why? because they are not being made anymore and that also effects the price of used M's.
Right?
You might also have noticed that Zeiss zm and Bessa bodies are up in value too. Why? because they are not being made anymore and that also effects the price of used M's.
Right?
lawrence
Veteran
I think the problem with the Hexar is reliability, ZI is a relatively simple camera compared to the Hexar. I have owned the Hexar AF and tried a Hexar RF and both had faults whereas my ZI works flawlessly.
Edit: Reading later posts I see that I'm not the only one thinks this is the reason.
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
I sincerely hope you are correct that Leica will continue to produce film Ms indefinitely. I suppose at ~$5,000 a pop, they can do so profitably at quite small volumes. I just get the feeling that production runs on the film models will become fewer and farther between as time goes by. Also, I believe the film models are still largely hand built. I wonder when the workers who build them are retiring. Will Leica hire and train new technicians to replace them? I sure hope so, but I suspect the bean counters will be analyzing those types of decisions very carefully at some point.
I have owned about 5 or 6 Hexar RF, and a couple of the AF, over the past dozen years. They all worked great. Of course, everything can fail, and will eventually. But it's possible to buy two Hexar RF for one M6 nowadays; when the gap is that large, it's very reasonable to go with the Hexar.
I loved my Zeiss Ikon, but they are selling for similar dollars as the M6, but not as much as the M7.
I loved my Zeiss Ikon, but they are selling for similar dollars as the M6, but not as much as the M7.
john_s
Well-known
I prefer non electronic cameras. I could live with a meter failing, but there's so much equipment out there that is becoming very problematic to repair. I know because I have them. I got rid of my expensive Gaggenau wall oven (no parts left, even in Germany) and now have a lovely French stove with no electronics at all.
P
PhotoGog
Guest
I almost weep at the memory of buying my first M in late 2016 from eBay. US$600 for a truly mint 1959 M2 from an old school photographer based in NYC. A year later, with the itch for a M6, I rationalised to myself that I could not justify two M bodies so flipped the M2. The highest bid was what I paid for it, actually a bit less after seller fees and miscalculation on shipping costs. I have scoured eBay in the past few months for a similarly mint copy (lever rewind with no self timer) and not only are they very hard to find, but asking prices start at US$1,500. Lesson learned: NEVER SELL AN M!
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