Out to Lunch
Veteran
A mint, full box Leica M6 Millennium now goes for +$ 4,500.
What's going on with used prices?
- Thread starter sanmich
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 110
- Views 7K
David Murphy
Veteran
The last global economic downturn coincided with the maturation of digital photography and the abandonment of film photography by most consumers, which really caused the price of anything film related to soften and even collapse - even vintage Leica gear to some extent. Now that is over (for now at least), we are in an era when classic photography is becoming a cult niche hobby of sorts. Thus there is some degree of sustained demand from particular buyers, coupled with the almost complete lack of new (high quality) film camera production. These factors are driving the prices of the better quality cameras and lenses to high levels. I don't see an end to this.
traveler_101
American abroad
Well you could be right - assuming the next downturn is a correction rather than a collapse, of course. But if you are correct, which is to say that demand will continue to climb, then perhaps some enterprising firm will start building film cameras again.
olifaunt
Well-known
There must be a business opportunity in flipping film cameras, not just Leicas of course. Basically all you need is buy now and sell in a year. It helps to have a review site. Everything someone reviews well has shot up into the stratosphere. This has happened to all the 90s high quality p&s cameras, for example.
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
I can't speak for the M6/P/7 as I've never paid much attention to them, but is $1k for a clean M2/3/4 really a steep jump? And has it really happened in the last year?
I bought my M2 (very clean from a highly regarded store with warranty) for about $1000aud in 2014. I started to pay close attention to M2/3 prices about 12 months prior to that, and have continued to pay attention ever since. My observation has been a steady increase (which I would expect) but no significant jumps.
Compare this to the 35mm film market in general, where 'premium' P&S' (Contax T2/3, Olympus Stylus Epic, Ricoh GR1 etc.) have seen price increases over the same period of 2x, 3x, 4x and more, and the price increase for Leica M seem pretty tame. For example, you will pay more for a T3 nowadays than a serviced M3...
JeffS7444
Well-known
That sounds like a formula for losing money! You can't actually predict the future based on previous trends. If you only look at prices from the past couple of years, then yes, things seem to have steadily risen. But step back a bit further to 2007-2011 (Chinese buying frenzy) or the 1980s-1990s (Japanese bubble economy) and recent price trends don't look so impressive.
JeffS7444
Well-known
Not at all: Those sorts of prices would've seemed decent in the late 1990s.
jarski
Veteran
am glad got my film Leica itch scratched in previous decade, now a content Sony shooter 😀
edit: instead of shooting analog, am more interested try printing analog one day. digital enlargers exist, and would be fun to try.
edit: instead of shooting analog, am more interested try printing analog one day. digital enlargers exist, and would be fun to try.
Contarama
Well-known
What may be happening...or at least part of what may be happening (with used prices)...goes like this - somewhere around 09 digital started to get good enough so that folks had to put aside the old paradigm and pickup this new deal. I sold off film blocks when I got my first digital block and then proceeded to buy digital cameras for the next several years. So did every family who needed these things for birthdays Christmas etc.
Now a D700 is like $400 (2012 a lot more)...in good shape. All those great film blocks that were forsaken for the digital experience are coming back into fashion. Ever shorter in supply. More valuable. Do any of you feel like you have a digital hangover? Or are you maybe like me and come to a place where I have two cameras and one set of lenses that you run with? I shoot a Df...can be bought for a dime. My F2 (very nice black eye level) will bring a nickel. Interesting imo
M9 anyone?
Now a D700 is like $400 (2012 a lot more)...in good shape. All those great film blocks that were forsaken for the digital experience are coming back into fashion. Ever shorter in supply. More valuable. Do any of you feel like you have a digital hangover? Or are you maybe like me and come to a place where I have two cameras and one set of lenses that you run with? I shoot a Df...can be bought for a dime. My F2 (very nice black eye level) will bring a nickel. Interesting imo
M9 anyone?
Erik van Straten
Veteran
In the end film is much more fun. Who has one of these?
Erik.
Erik.
Corran
Well-known
Glad I scored my M6 .85x for $700 a few years ago. Along with my Nikon SP 2005, I'm set on classic 35mm mechanical rangefinders for the rest of my life. I'll be interested to watch prices fluctuate.
aizan
Veteran
Social media is great advertising, too. People see what other photogs are using, and they think "If I got the same gear, I could take photos like that!"
kiemchacsu
Well-known
shooting film is a trend now, as it used to be i guess.
at least; hanging out with a film camera (but actually using iphone to take photos)
at least; hanging out with a film camera (but actually using iphone to take photos)
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
I don’t think it’s all about that.
For those of us from the digital generation (including me), we didn’t grow up with these cameras and don’t even know many of them exist. I think a big part of social media’s role is highlighting stuff we didn’t know about. Ie. “that personal is using an interesting looking camera I’ve never seen before, I’d like to try that...”
Which, of course, pushes up demand and prices.
DanskDynamit
Well-known
I think people are getting tired of buying film cameras that dont last long for high prices and they decide to pay a little more for Leicas knowing the build quality wont disappoint them.
jsrockit
Moderator
I remember it differently... Leica gear never collapsed. The M9 re-invigorated the market for Leica lenses...
jsrockit
Moderator
Which cameras are people buying that don`t last?
jsrockit
Moderator
Yes, this is something beginners always think. If your photos are great, it is your camera...
james.liam
Well-known
Astute observations all ^^^
M2/3 have indeed steadily risen but not excessively so. They didn’t suffer the collapse in price as did Canikon film bodies. The former, pushing 60+ years in age often do need a CLA and lack metering and this may blunt a more steep rise. The compacts have greater appeal to the crowd as they often came with superb optics, competent AF and sophisticated metering. A good example of stasis is the R8 with prices in the mid-$400 range and holding steady; pure MF has a small niche of adherents. But few, if any can be repaired once circuit boards fail, which beckons the question why no one has yet to jump in again, especially Ricoh.
M2/3 have indeed steadily risen but not excessively so. They didn’t suffer the collapse in price as did Canikon film bodies. The former, pushing 60+ years in age often do need a CLA and lack metering and this may blunt a more steep rise. The compacts have greater appeal to the crowd as they often came with superb optics, competent AF and sophisticated metering. A good example of stasis is the R8 with prices in the mid-$400 range and holding steady; pure MF has a small niche of adherents. But few, if any can be repaired once circuit boards fail, which beckons the question why no one has yet to jump in again, especially Ricoh.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
John,
I was flush with cash in 2007 during the credit crisis, and I found that people were selling their treasures. Of course I'm talking specifically of prices of used gear.
Not that Adorama sells cheap, but I did a lot of cherry picking there. I was new to Leica and did my research and bought a 75 Lux V2 for $1.8K that was made in Germany (holds a $100.00 premium) and a 35 Cron V4 also made in Germany for $1250.00.
Years ago I unloaded these lenses and pretty much doubled my money.
It was about a year later in 2008 that I bought my odd Wetzlar M6 titanium prototype that predates the M6 Titanium by about 5 years. I paid only $1K.
I still own my Wetzlar M6 Ti prototype.
The credit crisis was a very-very good time for treasure hunting because like in the stock market there was mucho forced selling and people had to sell their treasures.
Of course the lenses were dead mint. I found it remarkable.
I believe in "regression-to-the-mean" and because of actions of the FED the housing bubble kinda got reinflated. At this point real estate has to go sideways for a long time if you believe in regression to the mean, and pretty much owning a home likely will be a "dead asset" (again if you believe in regression to the mean). In a way the housing market never really bottomed.
The debt loads, public, private, and corporate, are all at high levels, so again economics 101 says eventually the debt will become a problem. These policies will be hard to change and will be a challenge to navigate. What a mess...
Hard to say if the FED, World Bank and others could rescue us from another collapse. When the shoe drops it could be uglier than 2007-2008. The banks don't have so much ammo, interest rates are already low and look to go lower.
Meanwhile there still is mucho overcapacity... Understand that overcapacity=deflation.
Cal
Similar threads
- Article
- Article
- Article
