What's going on with used prices?

[sanmich]

I think the prices for most used Leica M bodies have seen a steep jump in the last year.
This is while I don't see much change for MP/M7 prices.
M6 classic are now sold between 1500 and 2000 USD.
Clean M2/3/4 above 1k$
Anything to explain this?

 

[jsrockit]

I think they are becoming more rare. Especially in great condition.

 

[Ted Striker]

Supply and demand.

 

[markrich]

Fair amount of greed but also not many coming around for sale.
Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it and currently, people are accepting the high prices.
I had this discussion with a local camera shop this past weekend when an M6 arrived as trade it. £1500-1700 was the intended resale price but a year ago it was £1000-£1500.

The market will only accept so much price increase before they start falling again so I'm holding out a little longer. There were plenty of M6 cameras made. They're all out there somewhere. 🙂

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Scarlett Johansson wore one throughout the last King Kong movie and it’s the Scarlett Johansson effect.

 

[Ionex56]

More and more younger individuals, usually ages 20-30, are trying out film. Sometimes due to nostalgia, other times to try something new. Modern technology has made cameras so advanced it doesn't take much thinking to use them. There is little satisfaction with being able to continuously eye-AF at f/1.4, though in a professional setting it gets the job done quick and better.

Couple that with celebrity and YouTube promotion for certain cameras generates unbelievable demand. Take the Contax T2 and T3, or the Yashica T series for example. I remember selling my mint Contax T2 many years back for $400 when the market price was around $200-300, thinking I got a good deal out of it. Nowadays, T2s go for twice that.

However, I believe Leica Ms speak for themselves. The build quality and smoothness of the Ms make it really hard to go back to SLRs. Others prefer being able to see outside your frame or not having a mirror slap. All this in addition to the resurgence of film in the younger generation has greatly increased demand. When demand increases and supply is stagnant or decreased, the commodity commands a higher price...

 

[Photog9000]

I have seen the same thing with the plentiful Yashica Electro35 series on prices. Kind of amazing! Don't plan on selling mine because it was passed on to me by my dad. Still shoot with today!

 

[jsrockit]

More and more younger individuals, usually ages 20-30, are trying out film. Sometimes due to nostalgia, other times to try something new. Modern technology has made cameras so advanced it doesn't take much thinking to use them. There is little satisfaction with being able to continuously eye-AF at f/1.4

And sometimes simply to be fashionable. I see many necklace cameras out there. Also, thinking about photos happens within the framing device most importantly... not by choosing your settings. Too many people think manual exposure is rocket science.

 

[Calzone]

I see many necklace cameras out there.

John,

I love this expression you coined. LOL.

Cal

 

[raid]

The film M cameras kept their value over time. I am not surprised.
I kept my film cameras and I did not sell them because I appreciate very much the craftmanship and beauty and usefulness of such cameras in photography.

 

[splitimageview]

Greed? Really?

One could in theory offer up an M6 for say $3,000 simply because of greed, but that doesn’t mean someone will accept the offer.

M6s have hovered around $1000-$1200 for the last decade for those in good condition, with TTL a bit higher. Prices are definitely up, as the supply up for sale is the same (or less) and the demand is higher. In any case the D/S ratio is higher.

What's amazing to me is how low the Hexar RF is, considering it's the only M body with 1/4000, and how high the Zeiss Ikon has gone.

Both situations are supply/demand, but if I were in the market I'd get a Hexar.

 

[jsrockit]

Just for perspective, I bought a used M6 in 1991 for around $1000... and it was the current M at that time. Surely such a great camera with the Leica badge will sell for more as less are on the market and just due to simple inflation.

 

[kshapero]

Yes I noticed it too. That's why I get Nikon FE's. M7 goodness for a $100.

 

[Steve M.]

I worked in market research for many years, and have been a member of eBait for a decade or two. I don't think the prices today mean too much. They go up, and they go down, and not always for a visible, rational reason.

It's just a short term event. eBait especially has a ton of unscrupulous, incompetent and unprofessional sellers now (buyers are even worse!!!) as good sellers like myself and others get fed up and drop out, only to be replaced by some sorry people. I read somewhere that if the auction site loses a member, they get replaced with 10X more new sellers.

Prices here are high, but they have always been high. One assumes that a camera bought here is sold by someone that understands cameras, has probably invested in having them tested, often CLA'd, and is described accurately.

It's just a time when people are trying to get the maximum amount of money from a sale. The Japanese collectors did that some time ago, only to drastically lower their prices later when things didn't move.

 

[Ionex56]

Just for perspective, I bought a used M6 in 1991 for around $1000... and it was the current M at that time. Surely such a great camera with the Leica badge will sell for more as less are on the market and just due to simple inflation.

That is correct, inflation might be a bigger factor than most people think. Between 1991 and 2019 there was an average inflation rate of 2.28% per year. That $1000 M6 is $1,880.64 in today's dollars.

Obviously the price explosion in recent years isn't solely due to inflation, but the $800-900 mint M2/M3 you saw in 2010 can easily top $1k in 2019 after factoring inflation in.

 

[aizan]

Is a price bubble really a bubble of it doesn’t burst? I’m not so sure prices for film cameras will come down again. I think it will just level off at this new high.

 

[Calzone]

That is correct, inflation might be a bigger factor than most people think. Between 1991 and 2019 there was an average inflation rate of 2.28% per year. That $1000 M6 is $1,880.64 in today's dollars.

Obviously the price explosion in recent years isn't solely due to inflation, but the $800-900 mint M2/M3 you saw in 2010 can easily top $1k in 2019 after factoring inflation in.

Patrick,

For me you gave a good example of how a "hard asset" works as a store of value.

It is said today that the U.S. dollar is overvalued, and some say that the U.S. stock indexes too are overvalued or inflated in price.

As far as a "commodity" a used M-body does seem to be a store of value.

BTW I think one of the best times to have bought Leica gear was around 2007-2008. This is when people were selling their treasures to raise cash during the "Credit Crunch." People who were flush with cash found great deals on the cleanest gear.

I speculate that the next downturn might be similar. Keep some ammo dry as they say.

Cal

 

[JP Owens]

And in the U.S., there is a wealth effect happening again. The stock market is soaring, so even those not in the stock market are feeling wealthy. Credit is easier to get, so folks are buying more houses and cars and...old film cameras. After you've put a 4K television in every room of your new house, you gotta find something else to buy! 😉

 

[raid]

A Ferrari or Lamborghini?

 

[Calzone]

A Ferrari or Lamborghini?

Raid,

For some a Leica is a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

Read in John's post "camera necklace."

Also in November is film will be release "Ford Verses Ferrari." About Ford's challenge involving Carrol Shelby, development of the Ford F40, and the race 24 hours at Lemans. Matt Damon plays Carol Shelby.

I love the trailer for his film which has Carol Shelby (Matt Damon) ask if this Ford exec is ready when he does a zero to one hundred to zero while manuvering to terrorize a passenger in a suit who knows little of racing.

An earlier film was called the "Twenty-Four Hour War." The time periond was around the mid 60's.

Cal