What's going on with used prices?

John,

I was flush with cash in 2007 during the credit crisis, and I found that people were selling their treasures. Of course I'm talking specifically of prices of used gear.

Not that Adorama sells cheap, but I did a lot of cherry picking there. I was new to Leica and did my research and bought a 75 Lux V2 for $1.8K that was made in Germany (holds a $100.00 premium) and a 35 Cron V4 also made in Germany for $1250.00.

I understand Cal. They were good deals. However, they were still luxury goods selling at luxury prices. They were still expensive. It didn`t collapse, the price just went down. I bought a version 2 or 3 Summicron 35mm for $600 in 91. I think my 50mm summicron (maybe V2...it was black) was $400. To me, at the time, those were still luxurious prices hahaha.
 
I remember it differently... Leica gear never collapsed. The M9 re-invigorated the market for Leica lenses...

John,

I was flush with cash in 2007 during the credit crisis, and I found that people were selling their treasures. Of course I'm talking specifically of prices of used gear.

Not that Adorama sells cheap, but I did a lot of cherry picking there. I was new to Leica and did my research and bought a 75 Lux V2 for $1.8K that was made in Germany (holds a $100.00 premium) and a 35 Cron V4 also made in Germany for $1250.00.

Years ago I unloaded these lenses and pretty much doubled my money.

It was about a year later that I bought my odd Wetzlar M6 titanium prototype that predates the M6 Titanium by about 5 years. I paid only $1K.

The credit crisis was a very good time for treasure hunting because like in the stock market there was mucho forced selling and people had to sell their treasures.

Of course the lenses were dead mint. I found it remarkable.

I believe in "regression-to-the-mean" and because of actions of the FED the housing bubble kinda got reinflated. At this point real estate has to go sideways for a long time if you believe in regression to the mean, and pretty much owning a home likely will be a "dead asset" (again if you believe in regression to the mean).

The debt loads, public, private, and corporate, are all at high levels, so again economics 101 says eventually the debt will become a problem.

Hard to say if the FED, World Bank and others could rescue us from another collapse. When the shoe drops it could be uglier than 2007-2008. The banks don't have so much ammo, interest rates are already low and look to go lower.

Meanwhile there still is mucho overcapacity... Understand that overcapacity=deflation.

Cal
 
I understand Cal. They were good deals. However, they were still luxury goods selling at luxury prices. They were still expensive. It didn`t collapse, the price just went down. I bought a version 2 or 3 Summicron 35mm for $600 in 91. I think my 50mm summicron (maybe V2...it was black) was $400. To me, at the time, those were still luxurious prices hahaha.

John,

I understand. For CF's like us it still is mucho money. Still I'm mucho glad for the "sale" price.

Your context that no matter what, even in a fire sale, that Leica still is a luxury good.

BTW I a wait the next "fire-sale" that seems to be brewing.

Cal
 
I think the prices for most used Leica M bodies have seen a steep jump in the last year.
This is while I don't see much change for MP/M7 prices.
M6 classic are now sold between 1500 and 2000 USD.
Clean M2/3/4 above 1k$
Anything to explain this?

The reason is the increasing interest in classic film photography. Everytime I talk to my local stores, labs, online distributors they tell me that the demand for film is increasing again. Latest news from them was that there are shortages in film supply because of (too fast) increasing demand. Therefore some manufacturers have problems keeping up with demand. That is also the reason why films are re-introduced on the market. And if you look at film photography on instagram, facebook and youtube: it is booming.
And besides Leica you will also find lots of other cameras where the used prices have increased very much in the last 2-3 years. In some cases you now already have to pay former new prices for the used cameras.

Cheers, Jan
 
...question why no one has yet to jump in again, especially Ricoh.


A good illustration of the state of the industry begins at 7:40 in Mirko Böddecker's (Adox) keynote presentation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-WLDm-e8A

So yes, from his standpoint, it's a revival and looks healthy, but as with production of new phonograph records, it's still a niche market. $5000 for a new film Leica M may not be a bad price for what is likely a very low-volume item.
 
If there is a recession..or depression coming...film will be dead..
As in...too expensive to shoot..
And film cams will be cheap again..relatively..
Thing is...sooner or later..these cameras will be a real bear to fix..as the techs retire or die off..
Who knows how things will end up..
But I would enjoy the resurgence today...as tomorrow...well..
 
The reason is the increasing interest in classic film photography. Everytime I talk to my local stores, labs, online distributors they tell me that the demand for film is increasing again. Latest news from them was that there are shortages in film supply because of (too fast) increasing demand. Therefore some manufacturers have problems keeping up with demand. That is also the reason why films are re-introduced on the market. And if you look at film photography on instagram, facebook and youtube: it is booming.
And besides Leica you will also find lots of other cameras where the used prices have increased very much in the last 2-3 years. In some cases you now already have to pay former new prices for the used cameras.

Cheers, Jan

I think photography in general is booming... so many images. It's almost as ubiquitous as writing! 😉
 
If there is a recession..or depression coming...film will be dead..

No.
Film is almost 140 years old. During its lifetime it went through countless recessions and depressions, including two world-wars, the big depression of the 30ies, and the paradigma change of the digital revolution.
Film has survived all that.
And it will definitely survive the coming recessions.
I went through several recessions in my lifetime and several financial crisis. I never stopped shooting film in these times.

Cheers, Jan
 
B&W film will remain, most likely. Color may fade away, so to speak.

No.
Depending on the regional market, color film has a market share of 75-90%. It is by far the more popular film type.
BW film is a niche compared to that.
Both will remain, because both have increasing demand.


Cheers, Jan
 
My guess is because Leica no longer has the capability to repair the M7, coupled with the fact that the M7 is electronic and will be more prone to failure over time, they made the decision to discontinue it😀

After reading this earlier today, I contacted Leica repair in New Jersey. They currently repair the M7 and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

I’ve had my M7 for 15 years and the only issue I’ve had with it is that the DX reader failed. Leica repaired the then 8 year old camera with no charge. I see no reason that it shouldn’t last as long as my 1969 Canon QL17, a now 50 year old electronic AE camera.
 
I meant it to happen if/when there is a recession. You can develop B&W film at home for pennies.

You can do the same with color, too.
And here in my country you get color film developed in all drugstore chain shops for extremnely low 0.95€ to 2.55€.
And as explained above, recessions have never been a danger for film and will never be. Especially not now with a significantly increasing market.

Cheers, Jan
 
After reading this earlier today, I contacted Leica repair in New Jersey. They currently repair the M7 and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

I’ve had my M7 for 15 years and the only issue I’ve had with it is that the DX reader failed. Leica repaired the then 8 year old camera with no charge. I see no reason that it shouldn’t last as long as my 1969 Canon QL17, a now 50 year old electronic AE camera.

How dare you base your comments on facts and research!
 
Not sure what availability of color vs B&W film has to do with film camera prices. Prices are strictly set by the ratio of demand to the fixed supply of particular camera models.
 
Roland Rangefinder - I learned about these and tried to find a reasonably priced one. Great feature set and looks very compact. Wish they were more popular when new because the prices are astronomical!

I settled on a Welta Weltur 6x4.5.

In the end film is much more fun. Who has one of these?


Erik.


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