Neutronarmy
Member
I've been developing black and white on my own for maybe six months now, and it has mostly been successful. The last two rolls I developed, however, showcased one recurring issue and a few interesting new ones.
First of all, the sample is located here; I had originally planned to attach the image but thought a full scan may help clarify things.
The issue circled in red is entirely new and appears heavily in shots with open sky (from looking at the emulsion it seems to exist on most shots, but is very noticable in the sky); I had a vaguely similar issue once that I deduced through another message board down to developer frothing and I am curious if perhaps that is happening again. I always thorougly rinse my tanks, but I think I may start using a different container for a wetting agent to avoid any contamination.
The issue circled in yellow is also entirely new to me. It appears almost as a pinhole and I don't even know exactly where to start with that one. This is the only shot where it is really apparent, but I haven't combed all of the negatives yet.
The blue issue is obviously dust or dirt of some kind - and it is everywhere. However, even after liberal film cleaning (with a generic anti-static film cleaner at my workplace), it does not want to be removed. It appears to be well embedded in the emulsion of the film - another new issue.
If I am to expect any guidance I should explain my process; I'll try to be as detailed as possible.
I use plastic reels of this variety and a plastic tank (ocassionally an Omega and ocassionally another older style that came thrown in with my enlarging equipment). Last night I presoaked my film for a minute in roughly 20 degree water. I then developed two rolls of Tri-X rated at 400 and used D76 1+1 at 20 degrees for 9.75 minutes. I agitated for the first 30 seconds and then for 5 seconds every 30 seconds following.
After the developer I used a water stop consisting of two sets of ten agitations (emptying between sets). I followed with Kodafix diluted 1+4 that I had used for perhaps four other rolls of film. I followed the same agitation technique for 6 minutes (however, I forgot to cool the fixer and it was probably about 28 degreees). I don't know if I care for Kodafix: I just switched to it to save money over Ilford Rapid Fix and it doesn't always clear the very edges of the film. Perhaps it is my fault and not the fixer's.
I then used the Ilford-style wash, filling and emptying the tank for a series of 10-20-30 agitations. I followed with a distilled water rinse with three drops of Edwal LFN Wetting agent for one minute (with constnat slow agitation).
After I removed the two reels I loaded them into my film dryer built on plans from Shutterbug. I use a low heat for 8 minutes, flipping the reels after 4. I do question this choice of technique and am curious if it may be leading to any potential issues. After the film dryer I left for an hour or two with the film still on clips and then returned later in the evening.
I then cut the negatives into strips of four and sleeved them. I had originally used the film cutter available at my workplace (a photo lab), but was concerned that it was scratching my negatives (it is old and not of the greatest quality - a strike against one hour labs; I also thought that the storage between darkroom and workplace in film canisters may have been an issue): I have had a relatively consistent problem with small lengthwise scratches on most of my negatives; they aren't that noticable when scanning, but stick out prominently when wet printing. Even after cutting by hand, these last two rolls still exhibit similar scratching. I am curious if perhaps my choice of reels - which I find easier to load - may be leading to said scratches. The ratcheting mechanism extends over the entire length of the film instead of merely near the sprockets and perhaps an imperfection/debris is scratching the film while loading. This is just an idea, one I plan to test with my next roll (I have some other plastic reels with a more standard loading mechanism that I used when I first started).
Well, I hope I explained everything well and I greatly appreciate any help that you kind folks may send my direction. RFF has been an invaluable resource for someone just getting into rangefinder photography and darkroom processing. Thanks again in advance.
-Chris
First of all, the sample is located here; I had originally planned to attach the image but thought a full scan may help clarify things.
The issue circled in red is entirely new and appears heavily in shots with open sky (from looking at the emulsion it seems to exist on most shots, but is very noticable in the sky); I had a vaguely similar issue once that I deduced through another message board down to developer frothing and I am curious if perhaps that is happening again. I always thorougly rinse my tanks, but I think I may start using a different container for a wetting agent to avoid any contamination.
The issue circled in yellow is also entirely new to me. It appears almost as a pinhole and I don't even know exactly where to start with that one. This is the only shot where it is really apparent, but I haven't combed all of the negatives yet.
The blue issue is obviously dust or dirt of some kind - and it is everywhere. However, even after liberal film cleaning (with a generic anti-static film cleaner at my workplace), it does not want to be removed. It appears to be well embedded in the emulsion of the film - another new issue.
If I am to expect any guidance I should explain my process; I'll try to be as detailed as possible.
I use plastic reels of this variety and a plastic tank (ocassionally an Omega and ocassionally another older style that came thrown in with my enlarging equipment). Last night I presoaked my film for a minute in roughly 20 degree water. I then developed two rolls of Tri-X rated at 400 and used D76 1+1 at 20 degrees for 9.75 minutes. I agitated for the first 30 seconds and then for 5 seconds every 30 seconds following.
After the developer I used a water stop consisting of two sets of ten agitations (emptying between sets). I followed with Kodafix diluted 1+4 that I had used for perhaps four other rolls of film. I followed the same agitation technique for 6 minutes (however, I forgot to cool the fixer and it was probably about 28 degreees). I don't know if I care for Kodafix: I just switched to it to save money over Ilford Rapid Fix and it doesn't always clear the very edges of the film. Perhaps it is my fault and not the fixer's.
I then used the Ilford-style wash, filling and emptying the tank for a series of 10-20-30 agitations. I followed with a distilled water rinse with three drops of Edwal LFN Wetting agent for one minute (with constnat slow agitation).
After I removed the two reels I loaded them into my film dryer built on plans from Shutterbug. I use a low heat for 8 minutes, flipping the reels after 4. I do question this choice of technique and am curious if it may be leading to any potential issues. After the film dryer I left for an hour or two with the film still on clips and then returned later in the evening.
I then cut the negatives into strips of four and sleeved them. I had originally used the film cutter available at my workplace (a photo lab), but was concerned that it was scratching my negatives (it is old and not of the greatest quality - a strike against one hour labs; I also thought that the storage between darkroom and workplace in film canisters may have been an issue): I have had a relatively consistent problem with small lengthwise scratches on most of my negatives; they aren't that noticable when scanning, but stick out prominently when wet printing. Even after cutting by hand, these last two rolls still exhibit similar scratching. I am curious if perhaps my choice of reels - which I find easier to load - may be leading to said scratches. The ratcheting mechanism extends over the entire length of the film instead of merely near the sprockets and perhaps an imperfection/debris is scratching the film while loading. This is just an idea, one I plan to test with my next roll (I have some other plastic reels with a more standard loading mechanism that I used when I first started).
Well, I hope I explained everything well and I greatly appreciate any help that you kind folks may send my direction. RFF has been an invaluable resource for someone just getting into rangefinder photography and darkroom processing. Thanks again in advance.
-Chris
R
RML
Guest
The dust/hairs seemed to have ended up on the film during drying and then got embedded in the dried emulsion. Impossible to remove as far as I know.
The burned highlights are IMO just that.
No idea about the spots marked in red. But I personally NEVER use anything else but developer and fixer in my tanks. I use wetting agent in a spray bottle (a teensiest bit because it tends to foam, leaving foam on the film, which results in marks) to spray the film when I just hung it up to dry.
The burned highlights are IMO just that.
No idea about the spots marked in red. But I personally NEVER use anything else but developer and fixer in my tanks. I use wetting agent in a spray bottle (a teensiest bit because it tends to foam, leaving foam on the film, which results in marks) to spray the film when I just hung it up to dry.
Neutronarmy
Member
Thanks a ton. I had never thought about the spray bottle idea, but I just may give it a try.RML said:
My only conern is that the space I develop in (an old law library that I renovated and converted into a darkroom - cheap rent is one of the nice things about small towns) is rather dusty and perhaps the dirt issue shown would reoccur. Any suggestions on that front? I had heard about using garment bags to shield the film while drying, perhaps that may help? Also, with a final distilled water/wetting agent rinse sprayed on the film, approximately how long does the film take to dry (I would hate to damage it if not completely dry)?
Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
-Chris
R
RML
Guest
Chris, I always hang my film to dry in my bathroom. It's usually the one room with the least dust. Let the shower run for a few minutes on warm water to saturate the air with moisture. I simply hang my films with clothes pegs from a line a hang from one side of the bath room to the other. I let the films dry for several hours at least, usually letting them hang overnight.
like2fiddle
Curious
Chris,
I have a garment bag for drying film. It's an inexpensive and portable system.
I agree that spraying the film with the wetting agent sounds like a great idea. So long as you are able to assure it is diluted enough, but not too much. I was recently given a film dryer - never used one before but I'll try this one eventually. I've been just fine hanging the film and leaving it alone.
I have a garment bag for drying film. It's an inexpensive and portable system.
I agree that spraying the film with the wetting agent sounds like a great idea. So long as you are able to assure it is diluted enough, but not too much. I was recently given a film dryer - never used one before but I'll try this one eventually. I've been just fine hanging the film and leaving it alone.
Revolucion Artistico
Established
I use the same style of garment bag dryer as Roger. I made mine from this article in shutterbug http://shutterbug.com/techniques/film_processing/0201sb_doit/
Hope this helps, as I know how frustrating darkroom problems can be.
Ryan
Hope this helps, as I know how frustrating darkroom problems can be.
Ryan
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
wow. you've got just about everything going on in that scan. I don't think that all these artifacts can be attributable to just the processing (which seems pretty sound—as you've described it), and that you need to tackle them one at a time. I think the black dust marks are the really troublesome, because that shows unexposed areas on the negative (and because you've got so many of them). That's usually a dust or dirt issue within the camera, stuff lyng on the surface of the film during exposure. It could also be crud sticking to the surface of the film during the development stage. What kind of camera are you using, are you bulk loading?
.
.
gb hill
Veteran
I'm courious to know Why do you presoak your film before development? And why do you dry the film still on the reel? Start hanginging the film to dry. The wetting agent can't run off the film because you need to squeege the excess water rinse off the film before drying. This is where the spots are comming from. The dryer is drying the excess water on your film leaving spots.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
yeah, i would lose the drying on the reel technique. hang dry with weighted ends. also plastic reels need extra care as far as cleaning goes, use them for processing only and keep them clean.
Neutronarmy
Member
Wow, thank you all for the wealth of responses; the garment bag film dryer looks like my next investment. Now I'll try to tackle the questions.
I also do bulk load my own film. All of the canisters are reused C-41 canisters from the photo lab I work for. I use them once and then toss them to avoid dust and scratches.
I started developing originally in a rather small and busy space, so I stumbled upon the Shutterbug plans and went with it. The dryer was easy and cheap and seemed to get the job done; thus I began to dry the film on reels. However, now that I think it may be the source of some of my issues and I plan to dry in a different fashion.
My only additional question is, where do you think the scratches may be coming from? My initial thought was bulk loading, but even non-bulk cannisters are scratching. The scratches are relatively consistent throughout the film and always very thin, straight, and lengthwise in nature. This leads me to think that perhaps it is the reels causing the scratching?
Thanks again folks. It'll probably be a few days before I get a chance to develop another roll. However, I'll be sure to post an update along with any other questions that may arise. The help has been greatly appreciated.
-Chris
That evening I used two seperate rolls from two seperate cameras. The negative scanned was from a friend's Fujica GER (that I purchased from greyhoundman in the classifieds). I didn't even make the connection that the spots were black versus the traditional white of dust and will have to inform her to check out her camera before she shoots again. There is also the chance that the frame (from the beginning of the roll) got in contact with some dirt from the floor as she put the film on the reel herself (and is relatively new to darkroom processing). Looking through the negatives I shot I don't see any of the black spots - it was probably dirt now thinking about it.RayPA said:
I also do bulk load my own film. All of the canisters are reused C-41 canisters from the photo lab I work for. I use them once and then toss them to avoid dust and scratches.
I presoaked the film this time around to remove the anti-halation dye from the Tri-X (though I honestly may be mixing up TMAX and Tri-X as far as the dye business goes). I traditionally don't presoak with one shot developers or Ilford films (as I read not to - something with an emulsion based wetting agent), but I had originally intended to use straight D-76 and thus reuse it. However, I had forgotten ice and cold water was the easiest way to bring D-76 back to working temperatures, so 1+1 it was.gb hill said:
I started developing originally in a rather small and busy space, so I stumbled upon the Shutterbug plans and went with it. The dryer was easy and cheap and seemed to get the job done; thus I began to dry the film on reels. However, now that I think it may be the source of some of my issues and I plan to dry in a different fashion.
My only additional question is, where do you think the scratches may be coming from? My initial thought was bulk loading, but even non-bulk cannisters are scratching. The scratches are relatively consistent throughout the film and always very thin, straight, and lengthwise in nature. This leads me to think that perhaps it is the reels causing the scratching?
Thanks again folks. It'll probably be a few days before I get a chance to develop another roll. However, I'll be sure to post an update along with any other questions that may arise. The help has been greatly appreciated.
-Chris
gb hill
Veteran
I would be quick to say the bulk loader is causing the scratches, but sense you say the scratches are consistant you are probably right in assuming the culprit is the reel. There is one type of bulk loader that I have read about on here that is known for scratching film but can't remember which one. What does removing the anti-halation dye do? This sounds interesting. Now you can teach me something, which is what I like about being here.
Good luck with the process.
gb hill
Good luck with the process.
gb hill
MartinP
Veteran
I'd agree with the previous posters, the blue-circled effects are basically shadows and suggest a dusty piece of film inside the camera - either from a dusty camera (which could look fine after a quick go with the blower brush, but then have dust coming out of every corner if knocked when in use, for example) or from a cassette bulk-loaded in a dusty environment.
The yellow-circled effects appear to be halos from street lights on the poles there, so not really down to any problem, just the light-sources and the lens ?
The red-circled marks do look like an effect from uneven drying, for example with a bubble of water/wetting-agent between the back and front of the film as you try to dry it while wound on the reels. I second the use of the shower-room as an ideal walk-in, hang-up, film dryer.
For length-wise scratches which are not right at the side of the negs, maybe you could check the pressure-plate and/or rollers inside the camera, as well as the bulk-loader light trap etc (as mentioned by the other posters) of course. If the camera is very stiff to wind in either direction (might be the case with an old cam, dried grease somewhere for example), then the film is under more tension than ideal and might be more prone to scratching as a result.
All this sort of repeats other peoples suggestions, but at various times we have probably all had the same problems so the causes could be similar. Well done for collecting the effects all on one shot !
The yellow-circled effects appear to be halos from street lights on the poles there, so not really down to any problem, just the light-sources and the lens ?
The red-circled marks do look like an effect from uneven drying, for example with a bubble of water/wetting-agent between the back and front of the film as you try to dry it while wound on the reels. I second the use of the shower-room as an ideal walk-in, hang-up, film dryer.
For length-wise scratches which are not right at the side of the negs, maybe you could check the pressure-plate and/or rollers inside the camera, as well as the bulk-loader light trap etc (as mentioned by the other posters) of course. If the camera is very stiff to wind in either direction (might be the case with an old cam, dried grease somewhere for example), then the film is under more tension than ideal and might be more prone to scratching as a result.
All this sort of repeats other peoples suggestions, but at various times we have probably all had the same problems so the causes could be similar. Well done for collecting the effects all on one shot !
Neutronarmy
Member
I would first like to thank you all again for the suggestions; they have helped greatly.
This time around I changed most of the things people suggested as culprits. I changed reels, used a different tank (to avoid previous contamination), did a final wash in a seperate large graduate (to avoid contamination of wetting agent again), and finally let the negatives air dry off the reels.
Most of the problems shown previously have disappeared. The scratches still exist but they seem distant - fainter surface scratches. I don't know how much "scratching" is required before it shows up in a print. They most certainly didn't scan, but the previous ones didn't seem to either (or maybe the scratches came between the scan and the print last time).
However, with all the upsides I still ran into one issue. Around the top of several frames (especially those with a lot of solid light color) , I noticed this weird patterning. I don't honestly know what it is from, any suggestions? My only initial idea is that it might be a light leak - the last two rolls were shot with a "new" (to me) Konica C35 with some pretty ratty light seals. However, I don't know if the problem in question is light or development related, so I thought I'd ask.
Here is the photo, with the issue shown in red. Any and all help is again greatly appreciated.
-Chris
This time around I changed most of the things people suggested as culprits. I changed reels, used a different tank (to avoid previous contamination), did a final wash in a seperate large graduate (to avoid contamination of wetting agent again), and finally let the negatives air dry off the reels.
Most of the problems shown previously have disappeared. The scratches still exist but they seem distant - fainter surface scratches. I don't know how much "scratching" is required before it shows up in a print. They most certainly didn't scan, but the previous ones didn't seem to either (or maybe the scratches came between the scan and the print last time).
However, with all the upsides I still ran into one issue. Around the top of several frames (especially those with a lot of solid light color) , I noticed this weird patterning. I don't honestly know what it is from, any suggestions? My only initial idea is that it might be a light leak - the last two rolls were shot with a "new" (to me) Konica C35 with some pretty ratty light seals. However, I don't know if the problem in question is light or development related, so I thought I'd ask.
Here is the photo, with the issue shown in red. Any and all help is again greatly appreciated.
-Chris