Farace
Established
Among my duties as a volunteer with an opera company, I'm generally part of the backstage crew. For this year's production of Madama Butterfly, I'm not doing an awful lot back there other than opening and closing the curtain at the beginning and end of acts. The director has given me permission to shoot from the wings. I've decided to bring my Yashica Electro 35 GSN both for its quiet shutter and its low-light metering capabilities. I need advice on what speed film to use. Here's a wrinkle: Because tomorrow is opening night, I won't have a chance to buy anything other than what I can find at CVS or Walgreen (or maybe the one-hour photo store; I don't know what they're stocked with). Because of the gorgeous colors and lighting, I'd like to shoot transparencies, but haven't looked to see what film might be in stock. I'd like advice on whether transparencies are possible, or whether I should stick with negative film.
As for conditions, for the most part the scenes are well lit. I'll be as close as maybe five feet from the performers, up to twenty or so feet. Due to tight space and the need for cast and crew to move through the wings, I'm precluded from using a tripod, so I'll need fast enough film to allow shutter speeds fast enough for hand-held shots. It might be worth mentioning that I'm shooting for my own interest; if the shots come out well, the opera company might want to use them, but if I totally blow it, I'll only have disappointed myself.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
As for conditions, for the most part the scenes are well lit. I'll be as close as maybe five feet from the performers, up to twenty or so feet. Due to tight space and the need for cast and crew to move through the wings, I'm precluded from using a tripod, so I'll need fast enough film to allow shutter speeds fast enough for hand-held shots. It might be worth mentioning that I'm shooting for my own interest; if the shots come out well, the opera company might want to use them, but if I totally blow it, I'll only have disappointed myself.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
oftheherd
Veteran
Haven't done anything like that in a long time. Things I used to do were use (then E-4, that's how long ago) slide film and push the film 1 or if absolutely necessary, 2 stops. One stop usually isn't a big problem. That was with ASA 100 slide film. In negatives you might look for the Kodak 400 or 800 film. I have some 800 but haven't tried it yet so wait for other members to say if it is too grainy or not. I got mine at the Ritz past due date bin, and just haven't had a chance to try it. Do try to use a hand held meter first it you can, especially if you have spot capabilities, but even it not.
Good luck. Do show us your results and how you did it.
Good luck. Do show us your results and how you did it.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
stage lighting is often very high contrast, I think you'll find slide film too limited in it's dynamic range. I'd shoot Kodak Ultra 400 or similar - stage lighting is reasonably bright from the wings - so I don't think you'll have to push it any (and don't recommend it with that film either).
keithwms
Established
If you are stuck finding film, you might try some kodak bw400CN, which is available everywhere. Ilford xp2 would be better but you won't get it at those stores.
Better would be to pull hp5+ or similar. There may indeed be quite some range in the scene.
For colour, I think you can get reala / superia at those stores, that would be my next choice.
Forget slide film.
Better would be to pull hp5+ or similar. There may indeed be quite some range in the scene.
For colour, I think you can get reala / superia at those stores, that would be my next choice.
Forget slide film.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I'd look for Walgreens 400, which is Fuji (and very good). They also have an 800, which I believe is Fuji also.
Which opera company is this? I happen to be on the board of an opera company in CT myself -- but it puts on concert versions (i.e. no scenery or costumes).
Which opera company is this? I happen to be on the board of an opera company in CT myself -- but it puts on concert versions (i.e. no scenery or costumes).
Farace
Established
Thanks, all; I'll skip the slide idea. As for posting results, that will depend on what the director says. Posting photos of performers, I guess, can have issues. I'll see how it goes. Oftheherd, the only hand-held meter I have is an old Zeiss Ikophot that I used to carry with my Retina IIC before I started learning Sunny 16. Keithwms, I actually have some BW400CN at home, and I usually prefer to shoot B&W, but in this instance I'd hate to lose the colors.
KoNickon, it's the Opera Theater of Connecticut, in Clinton. I've been volunteering with them for nearly twenty years. I've found opera is a small world, so you probably know some of the same folks.
It would almost be appropriate to use the Fuji, as the opera is set in Japan, and I'll be using the Yashica. Then again, we have some interesting combinations going on--our Sharpless, for instance, is Russian, playing an American in Japan, singing in Italian.
KoNickon, it's the Opera Theater of Connecticut, in Clinton. I've been volunteering with them for nearly twenty years. I've found opera is a small world, so you probably know some of the same folks.
It would almost be appropriate to use the Fuji, as the opera is set in Japan, and I'll be using the Yashica. Then again, we have some interesting combinations going on--our Sharpless, for instance, is Russian, playing an American in Japan, singing in Italian.
Rhoyle
Well-known
I just checked kodak's site and couldn't find what I was looking for. They used to have a 160T tungsten balanced film. Also had a Tungsten balanced chrome film. Both were meant to do exactly what you're looking to do. Unfortunatly, I don't know if they exist anymore...
BH
BH
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Good luck with it! I fully understand about "use of likeness" issues, so if the opera company wants to use the shots, maybe they'll post them on the company's site?
topoxforddoc
Established
Personally I shoot B/W neg film (usually Tri-X or HP5 ratec at asa 400) for stage work, concerts, plays etc. When i shoot on my M6, 1/60th at f2 or combinations thereof is usually spot on. Normally I don't even bother metereing any more as the exposure latitude of B/W film (unlike colour slide) is very wide.
Charlie
Charlie
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Don't worry about tungsten vs. daylight balance. Just shoot daylight-balanced negative film and correct it when scanning, or have it corrected in printing. I'd suggest an ISO 800 neg film -- anything faster will have significant quality losses, and anything slower will constrain your shutter speed/aperture selection.
Speaking as a veteran backstage rat, I'm going to suggest that your biggest issue is likely to be exposure: generally the wings are full of lighting instruments, typically mounted on "trees" and "shin-busters", and these are aimed out onto the stage -- meaning you'll be shooting straight into the lights. Especially with a non-TTL metering system like the one on your Electro, there's a big risk that your camera will try to expose correctly for the lights and leave your subjects drastically underexposed. If you had full manual exposure, I'd suggest trying that, but the Electro doesn't, does it? If not, your best bet might be to set your film speed to 400 or even 200, to force a little overexposure (good thing color neg films tolerate overexposure well!)
The only other trick I'd suggest, and you may be limited in how much you can do it by your position in the wings, is to watch the relationship between the singers and the lights. Sometimes by moving a step or two left or right, you can get the singer's head/body blocking the lights on the tree opposite you. This not only reduces the risk of lens flare, but can produce an attractive rim-light effect.
Just relax and have fun with it. As you say, you're shooting for your own interest, so there's no pressure to produce anything good. However, my experience has been that opera companies (like ballet companies, theater companies, etc., etc.) are always looking for unusual photos that highlight the romance and glamour of their art forms -- so if you get anything good, something that really captures the feeling of being backstage, they may be all over you wanting to do something with it.
Here are a couple of "wings" pictures from my gallery (sorry, no opera pictures posted) just so you can see I've done this before. The first one shows what you're up against in terms of the lighting trees in the wings, although in this case the silhouette effect was exactly what I wanted:
In this next one, the work lights were on, so the contrast wasn't as fierce; this shows the nice kind of rim-light effect you can get from lights behind the subjects:
Good luck and have fun!
Speaking as a veteran backstage rat, I'm going to suggest that your biggest issue is likely to be exposure: generally the wings are full of lighting instruments, typically mounted on "trees" and "shin-busters", and these are aimed out onto the stage -- meaning you'll be shooting straight into the lights. Especially with a non-TTL metering system like the one on your Electro, there's a big risk that your camera will try to expose correctly for the lights and leave your subjects drastically underexposed. If you had full manual exposure, I'd suggest trying that, but the Electro doesn't, does it? If not, your best bet might be to set your film speed to 400 or even 200, to force a little overexposure (good thing color neg films tolerate overexposure well!)
The only other trick I'd suggest, and you may be limited in how much you can do it by your position in the wings, is to watch the relationship between the singers and the lights. Sometimes by moving a step or two left or right, you can get the singer's head/body blocking the lights on the tree opposite you. This not only reduces the risk of lens flare, but can produce an attractive rim-light effect.
Just relax and have fun with it. As you say, you're shooting for your own interest, so there's no pressure to produce anything good. However, my experience has been that opera companies (like ballet companies, theater companies, etc., etc.) are always looking for unusual photos that highlight the romance and glamour of their art forms -- so if you get anything good, something that really captures the feeling of being backstage, they may be all over you wanting to do something with it.
Here are a couple of "wings" pictures from my gallery (sorry, no opera pictures posted) just so you can see I've done this before. The first one shows what you're up against in terms of the lighting trees in the wings, although in this case the silhouette effect was exactly what I wanted:
In this next one, the work lights were on, so the contrast wasn't as fierce; this shows the nice kind of rim-light effect you can get from lights behind the subjects:
Good luck and have fun!
Farace
Established
As had been suggested by KoNickon, I picked up some Walgreen 400 on the way home; I could always stop again and get the 800 if anyone has had good enough experience with it to say it's worthwhile. Interestingly, I almost bought a four-pack of the 400 until I looked at the bottom of the box. Not only was it expired (1/2007), it was not the Fuji, but apparently Agfa, as it said it was a product of Germany and mentioned some Agfa trademark name somewhere on the packaging. The single rolls are marked "Product of Japan."
Jlw, no lighting trees for this production, thank goodness. We've had them at times, and they make stage work difficult in general (both for seeing and for being physically in the way), never mind photography. It's all overhead scrollers this go-round; I'm not even sure if there are any off-stage instruments lighting from the back of house.
Jlw, no lighting trees for this production, thank goodness. We've had them at times, and they make stage work difficult in general (both for seeing and for being physically in the way), never mind photography. It's all overhead scrollers this go-round; I'm not even sure if there are any off-stage instruments lighting from the back of house.
Rhoyle
Well-known
Another suggestion (assuming you'll have more opportunities to do this). Use an SLR with an 80A or B filter and spotmeter off the faces. You'll have less worry about color balance and the spotmeter won't be fooled into trying to make the whole scene middle grey. I work in theaters fairly often and spotlights can be pretty bright, so you might not need anything faster than 400. Use a monopod.
BH
BH
Farace
Established
My working SLR is a Konica FS-1. It's motorized, so it's too loud. Even if it wasn't motorized, I think the shutter on an SLR would be too loud from the wings. Until the soprano opens her mouth. 
(My non-working SLR is a Konica FT-1, also motorized. And somewhere around here is my grandfather's Konica Autoreflex T-2, which I haven't looked at in so long I wouldn't expect it to be operational without some TLC.)
(My non-working SLR is a Konica FT-1, also motorized. And somewhere around here is my grandfather's Konica Autoreflex T-2, which I haven't looked at in so long I wouldn't expect it to be operational without some TLC.)
K
Kin Lau
Guest
JLW, that 2nd shot is fantastic.
My favourite iso800 film is Fuji Superia 800. That should be a great combo with the GSN.
My favourite iso800 film is Fuji Superia 800. That should be a great combo with the GSN.
Farace
Established
Well, I got some interesting shots and I'll ask the director for permission to post a couple. Colors do strange things under stage lighting, and some things that should be black turned into a sort of dark fluorescent green. Unless that's Walgreen's processing . . .
Tonight I think I'll bring my Retina IIC with 400CN in it and see what happens.
Tonight I think I'll bring my Retina IIC with 400CN in it and see what happens.
keithwms
Established
Yes those stage lights sometimes have odd colour temps. Tungsten film might actually do alright, though it's probably all too slow.
Farace
Established
Here are three of the photos from opening night. The first (cropped) is the end of Act I, with Suzuki, Dolore, and Butterfly awaiting Pinkerton's return. The second (uncropped) is from ACT II, Butterfly, Prince Yamadori, and Sharpless (the lack of enough depth of field really shows here), the third (cropped), also from Act II, is Butterfly and Sharpless. You might be able to see how the blacks are really a very dark green; I tried lightening them on the Walgreen's enlarging/cropping/enhancing machine, and got prints that had flourescent greens where black should be.
I shot some BW400CN last night with the Retina, but haven't had it processed yet. If I get a chance, I might try some 800 speed tonight in the Yashica.
I shot some BW400CN last night with the Retina, but haven't had it processed yet. If I get a chance, I might try some 800 speed tonight in the Yashica.
Attachments
40oz
...
pretty good.
I experimented with one of your shots, and I think I succeeded in correcting some of the color cast in photoshop. I created a new adjustment layer for Hue/Saturation, chose the green channel, and reduced the saturation to -100. Next, I created another adjustment layer for Hue/Saturation, and adjusted the Master channel saturation to -40.
Link to image is here: http://lakespc.com/pics/forums/butterfly3_Edit.jpg
I experimented with one of your shots, and I think I succeeded in correcting some of the color cast in photoshop. I created a new adjustment layer for Hue/Saturation, chose the green channel, and reduced the saturation to -100. Next, I created another adjustment layer for Hue/Saturation, and adjusted the Master channel saturation to -40.
Link to image is here: http://lakespc.com/pics/forums/butterfly3_Edit.jpg
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K
Kin Lau
Guest
Instead of M Butterfly, we now have Night of the Living Dead
Farace
Established
40oz said:
Well, that helped; I think reality is somewhere between my shot and your correction. Suzuki's kimono was a pale blue, and Butterfly's (under the white) is a burgundy/maroon color.
I'm curious, though, about why they ended up with such a strong green where the blacks should be. I'm not too familiar with what color solarization looks like, but some of the other shots almost have a positive-negative feel that reminds me of solarization. I can't imagine anything I did to cause it; after all, all I did was set the ASA on the Yashica, and let it set the exposure. So I'm thinking it must have been either in the film or in the processing. When I tried to make cropped enlargements on the machine in the store, the bright green was enhanced.
Hopefully the B&W from last night and the 800 from tonight will turn out better. Still, when I handed some of the prints to the cast tonight at the cast party, they were happy with them.
Jpbob100, some of your "treatments" were interesting; they remind me of a graphic style that was common on early '80s new wave record covers.