Assaf
Well-known
Hi guys,
I hope you will be able to help me with this question.
I'm not too long in the film business. I got myself a nice Epson V700 scanner, which I really like givng both a good quality and reasonably fast scan.
The method I use for scanning is the following one: I put 4 starps of film on and scan all of them at the same time to one .dng file.
This gives me the following advantages:
1) I scan 24 pics at the same time. Then I open the file, magnify and cut the desired pics. It's like working on a contact sheet with the ability to directly cut an blow up large prints from it.
2) The dng gives me raw capabilities. Opening the file in PS version CS2 and CS3 opens a "raw converter" window with many capabilities. In adition, the dng gives me the option to do all the tone curve processing after, not before - scanning.
All in all, I minimize the interaction with the scanner and maximize PS time.
I know that many people don't like it but I find this method very efficient.
I primarily shoot BW but when shooting color the PS raw converter also give a very good white balance tool. Very effective when scanning cross processed file, where the color balance is a big issue (not doing it anymore though).
The only disadvantage that I see is that VueScan calculates the tone curve, contranst/brightness according to the entire sheet, a part of it not containing film at all.
In the end the pictures in the dng file are usually with very low contrast, and I have to fix it in PS before starting to work.
I want the scan to give a "good starting poing" for contrast/brighness. As a good contact sheet would be.
Anybody every used VueScan in such a setting?
BTW do you use the film profiles in VueScan? mine doesn't know TriX and many other film I use.
Many thanks for your answers
Assaf
I hope you will be able to help me with this question.
I'm not too long in the film business. I got myself a nice Epson V700 scanner, which I really like givng both a good quality and reasonably fast scan.
The method I use for scanning is the following one: I put 4 starps of film on and scan all of them at the same time to one .dng file.
This gives me the following advantages:
1) I scan 24 pics at the same time. Then I open the file, magnify and cut the desired pics. It's like working on a contact sheet with the ability to directly cut an blow up large prints from it.
2) The dng gives me raw capabilities. Opening the file in PS version CS2 and CS3 opens a "raw converter" window with many capabilities. In adition, the dng gives me the option to do all the tone curve processing after, not before - scanning.
All in all, I minimize the interaction with the scanner and maximize PS time.
I know that many people don't like it but I find this method very efficient.
I primarily shoot BW but when shooting color the PS raw converter also give a very good white balance tool. Very effective when scanning cross processed file, where the color balance is a big issue (not doing it anymore though).
The only disadvantage that I see is that VueScan calculates the tone curve, contranst/brightness according to the entire sheet, a part of it not containing film at all.
In the end the pictures in the dng file are usually with very low contrast, and I have to fix it in PS before starting to work.
I want the scan to give a "good starting poing" for contrast/brighness. As a good contact sheet would be.
Anybody every used VueScan in such a setting?
BTW do you use the film profiles in VueScan? mine doesn't know TriX and many other film I use.
Many thanks for your answers
Assaf
alansoon
Established
I use Vuescan with my Nikon Coolscan IV to scan (almost always) Tri-X.
The goal with Vuescan is to grab the most basic image you can pull from a negative -- ie. the flattest, lowest contrast.
I then work it in Photoshop, adjusting the levels to suit. So by default, my Vuescan time is pretty short. It's scan and go. I don't spend any time tweaking in Vuescan at all.
The goal with Vuescan is to grab the most basic image you can pull from a negative -- ie. the flattest, lowest contrast.
I then work it in Photoshop, adjusting the levels to suit. So by default, my Vuescan time is pretty short. It's scan and go. I don't spend any time tweaking in Vuescan at all.
Assaf
Well-known
Thank!
Do you also use dng?
Do you also use dng?
bmattock
Veteran
You can tell vuescan to lock exposure.
So preview, select one frame, adjust your basic exposure, using the 'b/w' histogram, then lock exposure and scan the whole mess. Assuming that all other frames were exposed more-or-less the same, you should get a satisfactory result.
http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc10.htm
I am not an expert, but I do use vuescan exclusively, since I run Linux. I do not do what you do, nor do I scan to dng, but it appears it will work for you.
So preview, select one frame, adjust your basic exposure, using the 'b/w' histogram, then lock exposure and scan the whole mess. Assuming that all other frames were exposed more-or-less the same, you should get a satisfactory result.
http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc10.htm
I am not an expert, but I do use vuescan exclusively, since I run Linux. I do not do what you do, nor do I scan to dng, but it appears it will work for you.
alansoon
Established
I use DNG sometimes, not all the time.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
alansoon said:
Most of the time I try for the best possible scan, and frequently 'tweak' vuescan quite a bit to get there. I just recently started keeping separate .ini files for the different film types I use, which greatly reduces the tweak time. So far, I have one for triX and one for Koday 400UC. I load those, move crop lines, if necessary, and scan. Very often I have little to do adjustment-wise in PS except small compensations, burning and dodging, and sharpening. This leaves me more time for other PS work. I do occasionally scan as you do, but usually only for specialized circumstances.
lewis44
Well-known
I do pretty much the same thing as RayPA, but have shot a GretaMacbeth ColorChecker Chart with each type of film and then saved the settings. When I scan a roll of velvia, etc. , I just call up the setting and go. It usually gives me good results and very little correction in PS. I do the same thing with a program called I Correct Edit Lab. After I have processed the color chart for each film, I do minor corrections in the edit lab program and then save those settings as well. It makes it a 2 click process and I am about 98% dialed in most of the time. Also helps to have the monitor calibrated.
I had not thought of it before now, but if the DNG scan brings up Camera Raw, you can take the color chart slide and use ACR Calibrator and dial in ACR for each film. I use that for my D200 when shooting Raw and will try it to see if it works with a DNG File
Randy
I had not thought of it before now, but if the DNG scan brings up Camera Raw, you can take the color chart slide and use ACR Calibrator and dial in ACR for each film. I use that for my D200 when shooting Raw and will try it to see if it works with a DNG File
Randy
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Ronald M
Veteran
I scan at 300 ppi for the entire contact shee. Fast and easy and then pick the one you want to enlarge and rescan it at 3200 or whatever so you get a decent file.
R
rich815
Guest
>>>>In the end the pictures in the dng file are usually with very low contrast, and I have to fix it in PS before starting to work.
This is a heck of a lot better than too much contrast. As mentioned above the idea in scanning is to capture as much info from the neg as possible and then work it in PS. Being that you are scanning a whole roll (or close to) at once unless you are shooting your film in a studio controlled setting your exposures will likely be a bit erratic frame to frame so getting that "magic" good contrast base setting for the whole roll would be a challenge, if not impossible. Even trying hard to find a good medium ground you'd still likely hit a few frames that would come in too contrasty and then those frames are sort of screwed. I'd stay with scanning them at low contrast, preserving the range of tonality and making sure you are not clipping highlights and shadows, and then working them in PS. It's what I do even when I scan frame by frame using my LS-4000 and LS-9000, especially for B&W where you want the utmost is long, smooth tonal range preserved so you can do your "darkroom" work on the image later.
This is a heck of a lot better than too much contrast. As mentioned above the idea in scanning is to capture as much info from the neg as possible and then work it in PS. Being that you are scanning a whole roll (or close to) at once unless you are shooting your film in a studio controlled setting your exposures will likely be a bit erratic frame to frame so getting that "magic" good contrast base setting for the whole roll would be a challenge, if not impossible. Even trying hard to find a good medium ground you'd still likely hit a few frames that would come in too contrasty and then those frames are sort of screwed. I'd stay with scanning them at low contrast, preserving the range of tonality and making sure you are not clipping highlights and shadows, and then working them in PS. It's what I do even when I scan frame by frame using my LS-4000 and LS-9000, especially for B&W where you want the utmost is long, smooth tonal range preserved so you can do your "darkroom" work on the image later.
Assaf
Well-known
Thanks!
Thanks!
many thanks for your answers!
As you can see, I'm only a beginner who's trying optimize his methods.
Your replies make sense, and also add some sense to my way of work.
I didn't know about the ini files, I understand it's a kind of a profile (curve) that is stored in a file.
If anybody has such a profile for TriX I'd be happy to try it.
BTW - talking about the PS raw converter - do you exactly understand it's tone cure parameters- exposure, clarity, etc? which of them do you use?
Many thanks and good night
Assaf
Thanks!
many thanks for your answers!
As you can see, I'm only a beginner who's trying optimize his methods.
Your replies make sense, and also add some sense to my way of work.
I didn't know about the ini files, I understand it's a kind of a profile (curve) that is stored in a file.
If anybody has such a profile for TriX I'd be happy to try it.
BTW - talking about the PS raw converter - do you exactly understand it's tone cure parameters- exposure, clarity, etc? which of them do you use?
Many thanks and good night
Assaf
robertdfeinman
Robert Feinman
I don't see the value of scanning into a single file. Vuescan will easily create one for each frame. The time difference will be slight and you can adjust to optimize each, if needed.
I also don't see the advantage to saving as .dng. Save as .tif (I use 16 bit). You then open each in photoshop and use the regular tools to do your adjustments. I've never used raw, but my impression is that using it for anything other than real raw files is mostly to allow a simpler interface for people who don't want to get into the nitty-gritty.
I find that using a curves adjustment layer will do just about everything that is needed in one step. The only thing that might require another layer is if you want to selectively alter the tonality of a region. In this case you would create a mask and then operate on the defined region.
The important thing is not to allow the scan to be clipped in either the highlights or shadows and then only to clip in photoshop where you mean to do it.
I also don't see the advantage to saving as .dng. Save as .tif (I use 16 bit). You then open each in photoshop and use the regular tools to do your adjustments. I've never used raw, but my impression is that using it for anything other than real raw files is mostly to allow a simpler interface for people who don't want to get into the nitty-gritty.
I find that using a curves adjustment layer will do just about everything that is needed in one step. The only thing that might require another layer is if you want to selectively alter the tonality of a region. In this case you would create a mask and then operate on the defined region.
The important thing is not to allow the scan to be clipped in either the highlights or shadows and then only to clip in photoshop where you mean to do it.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Assaf said:
probably good to get one from someone with the same (or similar) scanner. I imagine that would make a difference (?). I use a dedicated 35mm scanner (non-flatbed). The .ini file is the basic file. One is created/open when you start Vuescan (or any scanner app. probably). Look in your vuescan folder. When you you get a good scan with a certain film type, save the file, and use load... to ...load it when you use that film again.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
You don't need a specific .ini file when scanning b&w. Just pick any one of them from the drop down menu and use it.
I know it sounds too simple to work. But too many spend time worrying about unnecessary details when scanning. Just be sure you haven't clipped the ends of the histogram so you don't lose any data. Then you make the pretty pictures in your image editor.
I know it sounds too simple to work. But too many spend time worrying about unnecessary details when scanning. Just be sure you haven't clipped the ends of the histogram so you don't lose any data. Then you make the pretty pictures in your image editor.
bmattock
Veteran
robertdfeinman said:
Not to be argumentative, and of course I love vuescan, but I found it very difficult to do the 'each frame' bit on my Epson 4490 (Linux OS). I would set the preview for each frame, the press scan, and it would change orientation, lose the frame, scan the same frame twice and ignore another, and so on. What a mess. Never got it working right. I finally brought my ScanDual IV up from NC and use my 4490 just for MF now, frame at a time. I like the 4490 fine, and vuescan is the bee' knees, but that multi-frame scanning is for the birds.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Bob Michaels said:
The more I get into the whole hybrid process, the more I realize that you really want the best possible digital representation of that negative sitting on your computer—to start. And that means customizing, dialing in your film/developer/scanner/monitor/printer. Learning how to use your scanner and scanning software. You can go that route, using the presets (which never look right for me), spending time in PS "fixing" color balance, and exposure, but it's really a waste of time and effort when with a little work and time you can achieve all of that on the front end, by creating your own customized "presets." Then, you not only have a quality "digital file/negative" to fall back on, but you can also spend more time in PS doing more creative work. It's the garbage-in-garbage-out equation. Do it right, up front, or spend time fixing it later
.
wintoid
Back to film
I've not tried scanning to DNG, but wanted to ask one question. If you scan negatives to DNG, when you open the DNG in Photoshop, are you then working with a negative or positive image?
alansoon
Established
I think the main purpose of a DNG file is to have an untweaked master scan available for future use -- ie. when we all learn something new about adjustments in future versions of Photoshop. Gives you something to fall back to, without having to rescan the file from your folders.