alternatve
Well-known
Right, here's how it went.
On a lazy wednesday afternoon, I decided to take my Kiev out for some excerise. I fired the shutter to give it a bit of a warm up when I decided to check the back and lens for the fun of it. Took off the lens, all clear. Took off the back, all clear. Then I saw a gaping hole where the shutter curtain should be...
First thought. Oh dear, the shutter ribbon is gone. Then I rewinded and fired again and the truth became clear.
When I wind the camera, the first shutter curtain goes up, but the second curtain doesn't. When I press the shutter curtain down to get a firmer grip on the second curtain, it works for one or two shots before slipping again. I haven't been using my Kiev recently, so it couldn't be due to overusage.
Does anyone have any solution to my problem? Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Samuel
On a lazy wednesday afternoon, I decided to take my Kiev out for some excerise. I fired the shutter to give it a bit of a warm up when I decided to check the back and lens for the fun of it. Took off the lens, all clear. Took off the back, all clear. Then I saw a gaping hole where the shutter curtain should be...
First thought. Oh dear, the shutter ribbon is gone. Then I rewinded and fired again and the truth became clear.
When I wind the camera, the first shutter curtain goes up, but the second curtain doesn't. When I press the shutter curtain down to get a firmer grip on the second curtain, it works for one or two shots before slipping again. I haven't been using my Kiev recently, so it couldn't be due to overusage.
Does anyone have any solution to my problem? Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Samuel
T
tedwhite
Guest
Ask Keith, he's a Kiev guy.
NickolasB
Member
I think only repair can help.
If you not have experence of repair shooters in RF - give it to professional for fix.
If you not have experence of repair shooters in RF - give it to professional for fix.
Never Satisfied
Well-known
Dude, every one knows that when the first iron curtian came down that the second one was never going up!
Seriously, a new body would have to be cheaper than fixing one, I couldn't sell mine even with three lenses, I think Alex photo (ebay name) had shutters for the kiev's not that long ago.
Cheers Andrew.
Seriously, a new body would have to be cheaper than fixing one, I couldn't sell mine even with three lenses, I think Alex photo (ebay name) had shutters for the kiev's not that long ago.
Cheers Andrew.
R
ruben
Guest
I cannot imagine what could have happened between the last time the camera was working and now. But for the problem itself, the upper curtain is not engaging and raising the lower one. For accessing the engaging points you will have to open the rear box. If I remember it right this is the sort of things you are rather reluctant to do.
Therefore your practical venues are:
1) purchase another Kiev.
2) take advantage of the current problem to send the camera for a full overhaul, or just to fix the specific problem.
3) Since in both cases you are going to pay the price of another Kiev, start with trying to fix the problem yourself, with the help of the Kiev Survival Site.
Cheers
Ruben
Therefore your practical venues are:
1) purchase another Kiev.
2) take advantage of the current problem to send the camera for a full overhaul, or just to fix the specific problem.
3) Since in both cases you are going to pay the price of another Kiev, start with trying to fix the problem yourself, with the help of the Kiev Survival Site.
Cheers
Ruben
Spyderman
Well-known
Are you sure the shutter ribbons are OK? check at B setting and peek inside from the back...
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
My 1949 Kiev has a similar problem with slippage of the lower curtain. It usually happens after changing shutter speeds; when firing the camera at the same speed it is usually OK.
On the Kiev there is a small hook on the lower curtain. When winding, the hook gets caught by a small spring that holds up the lower curtain until the release button is pressed. If the spring doesn't catch properly, the curtain may drop. Maizenberg has a description of this problem on p. 265. On my Kiev the reason is that someone tampered with the hook. It's now noticeably flatter and slightly bent compared to my Kiev 4AM.
You will need to either bend the spring lever a little bit to catch the hook (that's what Maizenberg says), or you need a new hook (that will have to be the solution in my case).
Philipp
On the Kiev there is a small hook on the lower curtain. When winding, the hook gets caught by a small spring that holds up the lower curtain until the release button is pressed. If the spring doesn't catch properly, the curtain may drop. Maizenberg has a description of this problem on p. 265. On my Kiev the reason is that someone tampered with the hook. It's now noticeably flatter and slightly bent compared to my Kiev 4AM.
You will need to either bend the spring lever a little bit to catch the hook (that's what Maizenberg says), or you need a new hook (that will have to be the solution in my case).
Philipp
rolleistef
Well-known
well, it's not very difficult to fix. what you need to do is taking the top off, and then checking the big screw that sets the curtain hook. You can see, even when the camera isn't disassembled, that there is a hook that moves when you press the shutter.
Well, that hook prevents the curtain from slipping away when changing the shutter speed. If it's too much on the left, then the lower curtain wont free and the shutter won't fire. On the contrary, if it's too much on the right, the hook won't be of any use, and won't keep the curtain up.
What you need to do is removing the top so as to access the big screw. That's an eccentric screw. It will get tighter when you turn clockwise, and get loose when you turn anticlockwise.
At the same time, the effect of turning the screw c/w is to move the hook left, and antic/w right. You need to find a balance between the two so that it works correctly.
If it still is erratic (shutter caping), the may need to ply the hook a little so that it doesn't catch the lower curtain too much.
Hope that helps!
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html : the big "how to" website when kiev dissassembling is needed.
Well, that hook prevents the curtain from slipping away when changing the shutter speed. If it's too much on the left, then the lower curtain wont free and the shutter won't fire. On the contrary, if it's too much on the right, the hook won't be of any use, and won't keep the curtain up.
What you need to do is removing the top so as to access the big screw. That's an eccentric screw. It will get tighter when you turn clockwise, and get loose when you turn anticlockwise.
At the same time, the effect of turning the screw c/w is to move the hook left, and antic/w right. You need to find a balance between the two so that it works correctly.
If it still is erratic (shutter caping), the may need to ply the hook a little so that it doesn't catch the lower curtain too much.
Hope that helps!
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html : the big "how to" website when kiev dissassembling is needed.
alternatve
Well-known
Thanks for all your help!
Ok, here is the problem in depth, from what I can see.
The first curtain shuts at an angle, and when it raises, it does not lift the second curtain with it. Only when I use my fingers to manually insert the first curtain into the second curtain then it will raise, and only for a few times. Is there any way to make the first curtain grab the second curtain?
Samuel
Ok, here is the problem in depth, from what I can see.
The first curtain shuts at an angle, and when it raises, it does not lift the second curtain with it. Only when I use my fingers to manually insert the first curtain into the second curtain then it will raise, and only for a few times. Is there any way to make the first curtain grab the second curtain?
Samuel
wolves3012
Veteran
I haven't delved too deeply into a Kiev (yet) so I can't remember for sure but I think the top curtain is the one operated by the tapes. If it's closing at an angle that suggests that one of the tapes is broken or damaged. IIRC the only thing that keeps the curtains together is friction. Another possibility then is lubricant where is doesn't belong, perhaps from over-zealous lubing by someone...alternatve said:
zorroflores
Zorroflores
The problem described by Samuel looks to be that the curtains are not hooked when resting in the lower (uncocked) position, therefore separating when cocking.
This is most probably because the small hooks in the lower curtain are no springy enough to fall into the small holes in the upper curtain. It can be an easy fix but involves dismantling the shutter, for which I refer to the classical "Kiev Survival Site": http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/shutter%20assembly%20removal.html
About the operation of the shutter:
The ribbons are sewn at the free end of the top curtain and to the lower drum.
When cocking, the top curtain is pulled up by and rolled on the upper drum.
The lower curtain is hooked to and pulled up by the upper curtain, but it is not fixed to the ribbons, it can friction slip along them.
When reaching the fully cocked (top) position, the lower curtain unhooks from the upper curtain just to be catch-ed again, this time by the hook on the top-center of the shutter cage, as described by Philipp and rolleistef.
When the shutter is fired:
1. The hook is unlocked and the lower curtain is released going down into the lower drum, slipping along the ribbons, which at this time are stationary.
2. A fraction of time later (as defined by the shutter speed) the upper drum releases the upper curtain which is pulled down by the ribbons tensioned by the lower drum.
3. When the upper curtain reaches the lowest point, it "kiss" the lower curtain and hooks again with it, ready for another cocking cycle
Maizenbergs says it all, great book...
This is most probably because the small hooks in the lower curtain are no springy enough to fall into the small holes in the upper curtain. It can be an easy fix but involves dismantling the shutter, for which I refer to the classical "Kiev Survival Site": http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/shutter%20assembly%20removal.html
About the operation of the shutter:
The ribbons are sewn at the free end of the top curtain and to the lower drum.
When cocking, the top curtain is pulled up by and rolled on the upper drum.
The lower curtain is hooked to and pulled up by the upper curtain, but it is not fixed to the ribbons, it can friction slip along them.
When reaching the fully cocked (top) position, the lower curtain unhooks from the upper curtain just to be catch-ed again, this time by the hook on the top-center of the shutter cage, as described by Philipp and rolleistef.
When the shutter is fired:
1. The hook is unlocked and the lower curtain is released going down into the lower drum, slipping along the ribbons, which at this time are stationary.
2. A fraction of time later (as defined by the shutter speed) the upper drum releases the upper curtain which is pulled down by the ribbons tensioned by the lower drum.
3. When the upper curtain reaches the lowest point, it "kiss" the lower curtain and hooks again with it, ready for another cocking cycle
Maizenbergs says it all, great book...
Spyderman
Well-known
At fast shutter speeds 1. and 2. goes like this:
1. The hook is unlocked and the lower curtain is released at the same moment as the upper curtain and they both travel down into the lower drum. The lower curtains stays stationary relative to the ribbons and to the upper curtain, thus forming a slit of constant width (this is the reason why the shutter capping problem is impossible with Kievs).
2. When the lower curtain hits the bottom stop, it stops, but the upper curtain keeps moving - the ribbons keep pulling it down.
zorroflores
Zorroflores
Spyderman rightly notes the way the operation at the fastest shutter setting, thanks for the clarification.