Late model M8 serial numbers?

[rardinger]

Hi, Having just picked up the 28/2.8 I am looking to add an M8 body.

I have looked at various locations for the current serial numbers , i.e. the numbers of the most recently made cameras. I come up with 3,32X,XXX as a number that might be on a fairly new camera. Would that be true? Does anyone have one/seen one with a higher number?

I am hoping to buy the camera locally but it is a small shop and may have had any "in stock" model in the store for some time and I would like to have the best shot at avoiding some of the issues seen with some of the early cameras buy purchasing a recently built one (assuming a higher number means a more recent build)

Thank you, Robert

 

[Bob Parsons]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/30286-new-batches-m8-serial-numbers.html ------ in particular read post #24 about randomness within blocks of 2000.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/31959-m8-serial-numbers-backfocus.html


Also see if the shop will pop a battery in the camera and check the firmware version in the menu. Assuming the shop hasn't updated the firmware, approximate release dates are:

1.090 Dec 2006
1.091 Feb 2007
1.092 Mar 2007
1.102 Mar 2007
1.107 July 2007 current version


Bob.

 

[zeni]

I don't know if I am right about it. If you can guess the shipped serial numer of Leica M8, you will get two free IR/UV filters from Leica website. I found they mail out filters when any serial number been verified. How do these gyus protect their property? Maybe they should ask dealers to inform Leica what serial number been sold.

 

[jaapv]

The first two hundred or so in November 2006 had banding. After that all cameras are the same, with one caveat, there is a small run from probably January/February that needed one transistor replaced because it was out of tolerance on some cameras. Leica will routinely replace it whenever the camera comes in for service. The early run was upgraded to exactly the same same specs as the newest cameras. So there is really no reason to worry about production dates. Up until August there was such a shortage of M8-s, customers were searching high and low so it is virtually impossible for any camera in the shop now to be older than a few weeks.

 

[rardinger]

Thank you for the replies, I had found the post about backfocus and had wondered if the numbers were really in order.

Robert

 

[eon]

The first two hundred or so in November 2006 had banding. After that all cameras are the same, with one caveat, there is a small run from probably January/February that needed one transistor replaced because it was out of tolerance on some cameras. Leica will routinely replace it whenever the camera comes in for service. .....

Mine is from late January. So what is affected by this out of spec transistor? How do i notice the problem, if it has it that is?

 

[Ben Z]

I've read all the same stories about random serial numbers that everyone else has but I choose not to buy it. Like any manufacturing operation, Leica has to keep some semblance of track. I'm betting they apportion a certain block of numbers to a production run of a certain number of cameras. Maybe within that block the numbers aren't in order in terms of the production, particularly since there are parallel production lines running simultaneously (at least that's what I was told & saw when I visited the factory). But I refuse to believe that all M8's with 3,1xx,xxx were not made prior to any M8's with 3,3xx,xxx, whether I'm right or wrong. I also strongly suspect, having been involved with production items in the past, that the banding and the bad transistor aren't the only differences. I feel probably there are other internal changes, although perhaps of less or little operating significance. Of course it's just as possible that the M8's made now could be less reliable than earlier ones (a bad batch of transistors can always crop up), so there's no guarantee buying a later # will mean a more reliable camera. Nonetheless I went with that premise and got one in the highest-numbered batch to date (the same as the one you're looking at).

 

[jaapv]

Mine is from late January. So what is affected by this out of spec transistor? How do i notice the problem, if it has it that is?

If the transistor goes the camera dies... It would have happened to you if you had one. Leica does the socalled T2 upgrade on all relevant cameras coming in just as a preventive measure.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

I've read all the same stories about random serial numbers that everyone else has but I choose not to buy it. Like any manufacturing operation, Leica has to keep some semblance of track. I'm betting they apportion a certain block of numbers to a production run of a certain number of cameras. Maybe within that block the numbers aren't in order in terms of the production, particularly since there are parallel production lines running simultaneously...

I believe these assumptions are correct. M8 serial numbers are so random it is next to impossible to get a production date from a serial number.

My first M8 started with sr. 3018xxx, which was purchased early this last summer. Due to the problems I experienced with it, my friendly dealer (Tony Rose) replaced it with one in his stock (sr. 3196xxx) about six weeks ago - I doubt it was on his shelf for longer than a few weeks.

My point is this: I seriously doubt Leica produced more than 100,000 M8 units between the two cameras I had and more than 100,000 M8 units between the time the one I have now and the units you’re looking at in the 332xxxx range.

It is conservatively estimated that Leica has produced no more than 20,000 M8 units to date.

 

[Ben Z]

True but my feeling is the 3,32x,xxx batch started after the 3,19x,xxx batch was finished, and that in turn started after the 3,10x,xxx batch finished. Each batch may only have included 5,000 cameras.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

True but my feeling is the 3,32x,xxx batch started after the 3,19x,xxx batch was finished, and that in turn started after the 3,10x,xxx batch finished. Each batch may only have included 5,000 cameras.

A reasonable assumption, but black and chrome cameras are likely taken in different groups. Most M8 cameras are black chrome.

Mine is silver.

 

[Ben Z]

Good point. In the past black and silver of the same model were done up in separate batches, and I thought the M8 was the same, but when I was at the factory I stood at this large picture-window behind what I believe was the backs of the workers in the last row in the assembly line (because the M8's were fully assembled being tested) and there were both blacks and silvers together. So now I'm no longer sure if they're in separate serial batches or not.

 

[jaapv]

I doubt this. I know 11 persons with an M8. 9 are chrome, three are black. If it doesn't add up = I own two chrome ones...

 

[Bill Blackwell]

"Most M8 cameras are black chrome." I doubt this. I know 11 persons with an M8. 9 are chrome, three are black. If it doesn't add up = I own two chrome ones...

I am with you... I much prefer a silver chrome camera to black. But doubt me if you'd like - Leica's production of black chrome to silver chrome bodies is no less than 5:1. It has been that way for more than 20 years.

The ratios, however, are reversed with the MP (about 5:1 in favor of black paint).

 

[Bill Blackwell]

... doubt me if you'd like - Leica's production of black chrome to silver chrome bodies is no less than 5:1...

I contacted Tony Rose at Popflash.photo to clarify this question this afternoon. He said I was dead wrong...

The black chrome to silver chrome sales ratio is more like 10:1 in favor of black chrome.

 

[jaapv]

I'm sure it is demographic as well. I was at a LUF meeting last Friday here in Holland and most cameras (all types of Leicas, but mainly M)) were chrome. I guess only the factory knows what proportion on what market. It might even have to do with the type of buyers, a forum like this is bound to give a diffferent division than the general public.
Given that the black-to-chrome rate in the USA seems to be 10 to 1 if Tony Rose is representative, the relatively large number of chrome camera's (which come at a 2 to 3 minority) in the RFF poll must come from other parts of the world, making the chrome sales leading there.

 

[Ben Z]

I don't know about other parts of the world, but here in the USA in the late 60's and early 70's, black cameras were equated with pros (in fact they were often listed in ads and brochures as "pro black model") and that idea became ingrained to a certain extent.

 

[barjohn]

An easy way to tell now is if it has firmware version 1.108 on it. It then has the new main board and electronics. If it has any version earlier i.e. 1.1.07 or earlier it is older stock.

 

[Ben Z]

if it has firmware version 1.108 on it. It then has the new main board

Like everyone (I guess) who owns an M8 I also received the e-mail from Leica. It said nothing about a new main board. Do you have proof, as in from someone who works at the factory or who has taken one of these 1.108-containing M8's apart, that there is a new main board? I mean, other than the guy in France who claims he heard it from some support person at Leica. And if there is a new main board, what proof do you have that these M8's will function any differently (read: better) than the current one's?

 

[Joe Mondello]

I know that Nikon uses the second digit in the s/n as an indication of region, so the various 30xxxxx, 31xxxxx, 32xxxxx, 33xxxxx may well be 4 REGIONS of the world with the 0 being oh the US say, the 1 being Europe, the 2 being Asia, etc etc etc (I'm making those up just as an example) rather than an actual sequential serial number.

An easy way to tell now is if it has firmware version 1.108 on it. It then has the new main board and electronics. If it has any version earlier i.e. 1.1.07 or earlier it is older stock.

John that's a RUMORED new main board and the rumor seems very shaky to me at that. There is an acknowledged change in *an electronic part* for the 1.108 M8s but personally I think it has yet to be shown that there is *any* performance change at all due to this.