Printers...HP 9180B Vs. Epson 3800

nico

nico

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Hi all,
I'm going to buy a printer so I'd like to know if someone of you experienced and/or compared the HP 9180B and the Epson 3800 not only for the price itself but, mainly, for the printing quality and ink use (is it true that the Epson 3800 needs also colour inks for b/w printing?).
Suggestions for other printers are also welcome.
I mainly do b/w photography and I scan my negs with a canoscan fs 2710.
Thanks in advance for any tip and advice.
Ciao :)
 
Hallo nico,

I don't know about the Epson, but two gentlemen at a camera club I go to bought the HP (April and June/July). I love the prints.

But. And this is a big but. One has had to have his printer replaced once (April) and the other ended up sending his back altoghether after two replacements.

It's a shame, I saw the review in B&W Photography and they loved it.

Remember that you'll also need to get some calibration hardware (Spider/Spyder?).

I will bring the B&W Photography magazine with the review to show you.
 
kully said:
Hallo nico,

I don't know about the Epson, but two gentlemen at a camera club I go to bought the HP (April and June/July). I love the prints.

But. And this is a big but. One has had to have his printer replaced once (April) and the other ended up sending his back altoghether after two replacements.

It's a shame, I saw the review in B&W Photography and they loved it.

Remember that you'll also need to get some calibration hardware (Spider/Spyder?).

I will bring the B&W Photography magazine with the review to show you.
Click to expand...


Thanks Kully,
Rob here (Robert Blu) has the Hp and his prints are really lovely (both color and b/w). I had some of my photos printed on Epson 2400 (not 3800) and I love the results but they have cyan subtle tone...
 
nico said:
Thanks Kully,
Rob here (Robert Blu) has the Hp and his prints are really lovely (both color and b/w). I had some of my photos printed on Epson 2400 (not 3800) and I love the results but they have cyan subtle tone...
Click to expand...

If you use Advanced Black and White mode on the Epsons such as the 2400 and 3800 you should be able to dial in some warm ink to cancel out the cyan tone (or use a RIP). I have a 7800 and it is slightly green until I tweak it to neutral. Then it's fine.

I've heard recently that some HPs have roller mark issues with thicker papers like the new Harman paper. But I guess this applies to some Epsons as well. Might be worth looking into this if you plan on using heavier paper. I have a HP designjet 130 and it is quite temperamental with respect to the papers it will take, unlike my 2 Epsons.
 
Nico, for your infos the picture you have seen are on the new Harman Matt FB paper, 310 g/sqm. In addition to what Kully says about calibration I think you also need a computer with enough RAM and of course a good monitor...so I suggest increase your budget !
ciao robert
 
mrtoml said:
If you use Advanced Black and White mode on the Epsons such as the 2400 and 3800 you should be able to dial in some warm ink to cancel out the cyan tone (or use a RIP). I have a 7800 and it is slightly green until I tweak it to neutral. Then it's fine.

I've heard recently that some HPs have roller mark issues with thicker papers like the new Harman paper. But I guess this applies to some Epsons as well. Might be worth looking into this if you plan on using heavier paper. I have a HP designjet 130 and it is quite temperamental with respect to the papers it will take, unlike my 2 Epsons.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mark for the tips.
To be true, I was thinking that photographic printers were unffected by roller mark problem... got to get into this, but the problem is that i also have no idea about the papers I'll use... printing is a completely new world for me...


robert blu said:
Nico, for your infos the picture you have seen are on the new Harman Matt FB paper, 310 g/sqm. In addition to what Kully says about calibration I think you also need a computer with enough RAM and of course a good monitor...so I suggest increase your budget !
ciao robert
Click to expand...


Gosh!!! Things are getting more difficult than I planned ...
Anyway, calibration and monitor should'nt be a problem, a friend of mine has the tool for and my monitor is quite new ... don't know about the RAM ...
 
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I believe that the 3800 does not use the color inks when printing BW - at least the set up I was using (printing via rip) was showing no color cast.

Beautiful prints. I'm considering buying one for myself.
 
rogue_designer said:
I believe that the 3800 does not use the color inks when printing BW - at least the set up I was using (printing via rip) was showing no color cast.

Beautiful prints. I'm considering buying one for myself.
Click to expand...

The ABW mode does use colour inks. I believe the 'black' inks are not actually black, but slightly warm in hue. So some cool ink has to be added to the mix to get neutral whether you use ABW or a RIP.
 
nico said:
... and what about ink use/costs?
Click to expand...

It depends a lot on the printer. The bigger the cartridges they take, generally the cheaper they cost to run. My epson 2100 costs a lot in ink as the carts only hold a small amount of ink (20ml or so I think), but they cost ~£15 each (there are 8 if you include both blacks). You can modify these printers to take larger tanks (called CIS, continuous ink system, or CFS, continuous flow system etc.) This is a lot cheaper, but then you have to use some other manufacturer's ink.

My Epson 7800 carts are huge (hold 220ml of ink) but cost about £50 each. But they last a lot longer and are actually much better value.

The HP designjet I have is the cheapest to run. The 69ml carts last a long time as the printer doesn't run cleaning cycles. Epsons waste a lot of ink almost every time you switch them on because they usually purge a bit of ink through the heads to keep them clean.

Paper is also a wide open area. You can pay anything from £0.10 to £1 or more per A4 size sheet depending on the thickness, quality and archival nature of the materials. Buying in bulk or in rolls is usually cheaper.
 
Thanks for the inputs Mark, they're very helpful, I have to check what kind of cartridges 9180B and Epson 3800 use...
 
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...if you put some files (of course via a good scanner!) on a cd I'll be happy to print a few a4 pic as test. Never tried a3 or a3+. For what i read on a german magazine 3800 epson does not accept rolls (not sufre, my german is primitive!). I'll chek if more quiet during the next wet week end ,
ciao
rob
 
nico said:
and maybe for a beginner like me is the best tool for the price ...
Click to expand...

May well be. And you're hardly a beginner.

I admit price is a concern with these rigs. As is your own needs. I happen to like the larger size options available with the 3800... but that only responds to my own needs.

I have yet to see prints from the HP. But by all accounts, you can't really go wrong with either system.
 
robert blu said:
...if you put some files (of course via a good scanner!) on a cd I'll be happy to print a few a4 pic as test. Never tried a3 or a3+. For what i read on a german magazine 3800 epson does not accept rolls (not sufre, my german is primitive!). I'll chek if more quiet during the next wet week end ,
ciao
rob
Click to expand...


Hey! you know I have a very good scanner :D!
Thanks for the offer Rob :) I'd be very very glad and thankful!
 
rogue_designer said:
May well be. And you're hardly a beginner.

I admit price is a concern with these rigs. As is your own needs. I happen to like the larger size options available with the 3800... but that only responds to my own needs.

I have yet to see prints from the HP. But by all accounts, you can't really go wrong with either system.
Click to expand...


Thanks :)
yes, I know about the size, but it would not be a problem for me now; A4 size and the price of Hp maybe would suit my learning and training period as digital printer...
 
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The Epson 3800 doesn't take rolls, but does have matte and photo black inks in at the same time. The next up (4800) takes rolls, but you have to switch between matte and photo black ink (costs a lot as the lines have to be purged).

Some people still buy rolls and cut them into sheets themselves.
 
I think all mentioned machines are not bad. Two important things have to be kept in mind:
1 - there will be anyway a learning curve, as in traditional wet darkroom. Do not believe to connect printer and computer, put paper in and have excellent photo. Experience is necessary
2 - in the old times it was said if you like to sell petrol you must give lamps as present ! or in a more photographic language the polaroid marketing: cheap hardware comapre to the cost of material, in this case ink (and paper)
But satisfaction will be great and paying back the efforts, not so sure about paying back the inks...
rob
 
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