rlightfoot
Member
sitemistic said:
Probably true, but, I feel that "resoloution" and "quality" are somewhat independant, and film has a certain quality that fundamentally sets it apart from any digital imaging method. Film has more soul, and it always will...
And humanity will have lost something very special.
Mackinaw
Think Different
rlightfoot said:
Bleak? Maybe it's better to say realistic. Folks who think film will be around forever don't understand the economic realities of making the stuff. Or the fact that designing and producing film is hard and that the number of people who really understand the processes involved are dwindling. The one poster in the APUG thread, Photo Engineer, worked in the industry (Kodak) for years and is a person I've learned to respect.
That being said, I don't intend to stop using film until I'm dead or film is no longer being made. Digital, right now, doesn't interest me in the least.
Jim B.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
sitemistic said:I'm afraid humanity will have lost something far more special than film in 50 years, but this isn't the philosophy forum
I agree. Looking at current events somehow film or digital does not pop into my head.
rlightfoot
Member
Mackinaw said:
Yeah, well I tend to find "realism" to be pretty bleak these days.
I'm in the same boat, I'll use film until I can't.
literiter
Well-known
Tomorrow morning, at 9:15 PST film will be discontinued. All film will be returned to wherever they make film and then we can't have it any more.
Sorry to tell you all this.
Sorry to tell you all this.
alien8
Established
Personally, I fear that film won't last nearly as long as most of us here hope that it will. I don't have any inside scoop on the technical or economic/financial aspects of manufacturing film but I strongly suspect that it is one of the many industries that is highly dependent on economies of sale for its viability. As the market for film continues to shrink I suspect that more and more manufacturers will come to the conclusion that their market share is just too small to profitably continue their manufacturing. Others will decide to market their films as premium products for a niche market, which will have the effect of driving yet more consumers to digital. The fact that some of the up and coming producers of film now reside in former eastern bloc countries like the Czech Republic (where I presume that digital photography has less penetration - please correct me if I'm wrong) I think just affirms that dominant trend. That is to say that I suppose that the overall trends are just a few years behind there as compared to wealthier regions but that they will soon catch up.
Overall, I think that as film fades out of existence the selection of products will obviously continue to diminish but at the same time the quality of the products will also diminish due to the fact that the shrinking niche market will make it more and more difficult for smaller manufacturers to live up to the quality and consistency that the larger producers of yore were able to provide. And I think that it will all happen in relatively short order, say 5 to 10 years.
Yes, I'm a pessimist. I have just come back to film and plan to stick with it for as long as possible.
Overall, I think that as film fades out of existence the selection of products will obviously continue to diminish but at the same time the quality of the products will also diminish due to the fact that the shrinking niche market will make it more and more difficult for smaller manufacturers to live up to the quality and consistency that the larger producers of yore were able to provide. And I think that it will all happen in relatively short order, say 5 to 10 years.
Yes, I'm a pessimist. I have just come back to film and plan to stick with it for as long as possible.
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Rayt
Nonplayer Character
As long as there are film cameras and people using them there will always be film however it may not be the film you want. The best films are made by huge companies who one day might decide it is not enough of a money maker to continue. But then there are the small companies in Eastern Europe, India and China making black and white films but with quality a throw back to the 50's. Photography might just get more interesting as a result.
Papa Smurf
Established
On a whim and a prayer
On a whim and a prayer
You are correct. Reality is that film is like any other product being manufactured today, it is at the mercy of the suits in the Board Room. The quaterly earnings report has spelled the dealth knell for many a good and otherwise sound company. :bang:
Our only hedge is to create an artificial market by buying and stockpiling as much film as we can afford and encourage others to do the same. I have enough film on hand to keep me shooting for the next couple of years. My cameras are certainly going to out last my stash of film The tri-x was manufactured in the 80's or early 90's. It works better at 320 or even 250 now, but it still works!
On a whim and a prayer
rlightfoot said:
You are correct. Reality is that film is like any other product being manufactured today, it is at the mercy of the suits in the Board Room. The quaterly earnings report has spelled the dealth knell for many a good and otherwise sound company. :bang:
Our only hedge is to create an artificial market by buying and stockpiling as much film as we can afford and encourage others to do the same. I have enough film on hand to keep me shooting for the next couple of years. My cameras are certainly going to out last my stash of film
The tri-x was manufactured in the 80's or early 90's. It works better at 320 or even 250 now, but it still works!wgerrard
Veteran
cp_ste.croix said:
And really expensive equipment stuffed with vacuum tubes.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Eh, painting wasn't killed by photography so I doubt that digital will completely kill film. I might add that some paint production is even nastier ecologically than film production yet I can walk into a number of stores here in Madison and buy a tube of titanium white provided I'm willing to pay for it. Sheet film and possibly a resurgence of dry plates (easier tech to produce) will be around as long as it's financially viable.
Oh and I might add that the eco cops will be after the digi cams far sooner than the film folks. There are seriously nasty byproducts to the production of any ICs/CPUs/Sensors that make film look seriously green...
William
Oh and I might add that the eco cops will be after the digi cams far sooner than the film folks. There are seriously nasty byproducts to the production of any ICs/CPUs/Sensors that make film look seriously green...
William
Athena
Well-known
Oh how many times I've seen threads like this on RFF.
The only thing that amazes me is that old timers who've also seen them keep responding.
Film will last as long as people keep using it.
If you like analog photography then just enjoy yourself and keep shooting.
Oh, and you might want to check out APUG - where this question is never asked.
The only thing that amazes me is that old timers who've also seen them keep responding.
Film will last as long as people keep using it.
If you like analog photography then just enjoy yourself and keep shooting.
Oh, and you might want to check out APUG - where this question is never asked.
literiter
Well-known
wlewisiii said:Eh, painting wasn't killed by photography so I doubt that digital will completely kill film. I might add that some paint production is even nastier ecologically than film production yet I can walk into a number of stores here in Madison and buy a tube of titanium white provided I'm willing to pay for it. Sheet film and possibly a resurgence of dry plates (easier tech to produce) will be around as long as it's financially viable.
Oh and I might add that the eco cops will be after the digi cams far sooner than the film folks. There are seriously nasty byproducts to the production of any ICs/CPUs/Sensors that make film look seriously green...
William
I wanted to say this.
biomed
Veteran
Just enjoy it while it is still available! There are plenty of things to fret over. I just heard the Sun is only going to last another five or six billion years!!!!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I sometimes wonder what will happen to all the fossil fuelled vehicles on the planet when we've finally exhausted the oil ... I guess they can be broken down to their basic elements and remanufactured into devices that fit better into a non carbon based energy system.
Will there be a huge recycling plant somewhere in the world grinding up our Leicas and Rolleiflexes to be made into 20 megapixel camera phones when film stops being manufactured? Actually I'd rather not think about that! :angel:
Will there be a huge recycling plant somewhere in the world grinding up our Leicas and Rolleiflexes to be made into 20 megapixel camera phones when film stops being manufactured? Actually I'd rather not think about that!
:angel:ltketch
Established
Maybe we should be asking "how do we make our own silver halide film at home?"
W
wlewisiii
Guest
ltketch said:
Major honking bit*h. Look for Photo Engineer on APUG and you'll begin to get an idea. Then you can start looking for the info that's out there. It _can_ be done. But making a silver halide in gelatine emulsion that can be used to coat a dry plate is almost as bad as making properly corned FFFFG powder at home. No, it's something that will always be better done with factories involved, but that doesn't mean it can't be economically feasable at a fairly low production level if you don't have, forex, EK's huge plants that need to run 24/7/365.
William
40oz
...
B&W has been a tiny niche for what, 40 years or more? I don't think it could get any tinier, and yet, we can all still get film whenever we please at local camera shops. Prices of used classic cameras haven't fallen through the floor yet, so I think we are doing OK with film yet.
sam_m
Well-known
sitemistic said:
But I like noise! Argghhhh!!! Why is digital quality always measured by a lack of noise or how many ****ing pixels it has????????
mike goldberg
The Peaceful Pacific
Yes, some types of film are disappearing from store shelves, yet... the fact that Kodak has just introduced a new, improved sharp and fine-grained Tmax 400,
is a very encouraging sign!
is a very encouraging sign!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
sitemistic said:"and yet, we can all still get film whenever we please at local camera shops."
Not around here. Both of the camera shops have gone out of business. Have to order everything from B&H now. Sure did enjoy fondling cameras and drolling over the stock in the 3D camera store.
So true ... if I want to get any quality 35mm black and white or colour film I have to go into the city which is a good half hour from where I live. The local shopping center does sell a little basic C41 in 200 and 400 ISO but it's damned expensive ... like seven or eight dollars a roll as compared to the $2.70 I can get it for from a Hong Kong eBay seller. It makes no difference because I order all my film on line and thanks to the failing dollar I order it from the US.
Film prices in this fair land of Oz are a joke ... try $10.00 a roll for 35mm HP5 ... I just bought twenty rolls from Fedka for less than $5.00 per roll including post. The nearest pro lab charges nearly $9.00 to process C41 and $12.00 for normal black and white and it's a twenty kilometre drive each way to get it there!
Someone shooting a film camera in this part of the world is a rarity and I am constantly asked ... "Why?"
rlightfoot
Member
The poll results so far are rather encouraging. I think I'll take the advice to just get on with it and stop worrying.
Although I must say, I think the results would be entirely the other way around if I posted the poll on a digital forum, and there'd probably be 10x the number of voters...
Although I must say, I think the results would be entirely the other way around if I posted the poll on a digital forum, and there'd probably be 10x the number of voters...