peterm1
Veteran
We have had a few instances in Australia of security guards seriously injuring or in some cases even killing people - usually by beating them to death. While there are reputable security companies, too many of them are cowboys who hire cowboys and more often than not, get away with it. The politicians seem disinclined to do anything except act shocked and huff and puff when some innocent person gets killed by one of these thugs. There have been a few TV exposes catching them in the act - king hitting people from behind for giving them "lip" and kicking them when on the ground. It is seldom that charges are brought against them. A few years back when I was single I got to know some of the security guys who provided security at our local nightclubs. Actually I got to like these guys who were well trained, well selected and sensible. They agreed there was a bad element in the industry who needed to be cleaned up.
PS there was a case here a few years back which shocked me -probably shocked all of Australia. A 48 year old man died after being hit by a security guard at a hotel. The facts are disputed about how rowdy the man (who was a distinguished and well known ex sporting hero) was being but the jury appeared to give the bouncer the benefit of the doubt and he got off. What was un-controverted was that the bouncers followed this guy into the street and hit him when he was well off the premises - he had by then left the premises and was out of the guards jurisdiction - if he ever had one. There was disputed evidence that the victim was trying to get into a car to leave when he was punched to the ground. Nearby residents gave evidence that the bouncer told the victim that he was going to belt him for being a "smart mouth." (Somehow I doubt these were the exact words used.) I can only say that I was very surprised that he got off as it sounded like manslaughter to me. Hard to see how the guard was at risk from the victim in the circumstances - evidently the jury disagreed. The guard was a former boxer by the way.
PS there was a case here a few years back which shocked me -probably shocked all of Australia. A 48 year old man died after being hit by a security guard at a hotel. The facts are disputed about how rowdy the man (who was a distinguished and well known ex sporting hero) was being but the jury appeared to give the bouncer the benefit of the doubt and he got off. What was un-controverted was that the bouncers followed this guy into the street and hit him when he was well off the premises - he had by then left the premises and was out of the guards jurisdiction - if he ever had one. There was disputed evidence that the victim was trying to get into a car to leave when he was punched to the ground. Nearby residents gave evidence that the bouncer told the victim that he was going to belt him for being a "smart mouth." (Somehow I doubt these were the exact words used.) I can only say that I was very surprised that he got off as it sounded like manslaughter to me. Hard to see how the guard was at risk from the victim in the circumstances - evidently the jury disagreed. The guard was a former boxer by the way.
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colyn
ישו משיח
I wanted to let everybody know what's happened so far.
My attorney called me today and has advised me not to have any contact with the security company. If they call I should refer all inquiries to him. After talking to the owner of the security company he has decided we need to file a court case and plans to do so later this week..
As some have said there are both good and bad security personal. The problem is the bad make the others look bad so I wanted to let those out there who work hard and do right that their hard work is very much appreciated and to those who abuse the system I hope you get what you deserve..I plan to take this bad apple to the cleaners..
My attorney called me today and has advised me not to have any contact with the security company. If they call I should refer all inquiries to him. After talking to the owner of the security company he has decided we need to file a court case and plans to do so later this week..
As some have said there are both good and bad security personal. The problem is the bad make the others look bad so I wanted to let those out there who work hard and do right that their hard work is very much appreciated and to those who abuse the system I hope you get what you deserve..I plan to take this bad apple to the cleaners..
colyn
ישו משיח
Al Patterson said:
After talking to my attorney today I'm beginning to wonder if the super and/or owner has the right attitude since he has recommended court..
Gumby
Veteran
colyn said:
(disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.) Perhaps the super/owner realizes that the guard is a bad apple and deserves to be criminally prosecuted. Perhaps he is also trying to avoid a civil suit against himself and the company. In a civil suit he as supervisor can be dragged into the affair and together wiht the company might be found responsible for the guards aggressive behavior toward you. Your lawyer can best explain what the options are and why the super/owner is willing to let one of his employees be crimminally charged.
foto_fool
Well-known
Colyn - Any friends at Dallas Morning News? If the paper were to pick up this story it could go national on the wire services. And it should. Not everything happens in NY or LA.
- John
- John
Gumby
Veteran
Roger Hicks said:
Might the fact that the piece of paper has little real value make this a bit of a non issue? Or might this be a case of "conversion"?
(repeat disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so set me straight if I'm off track.)
landsknechte
Well-known
Out of curiosity, was this a small mom & pop security firm, or a regional / national company?
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I know the intent here is humourous, but since you never know how a taser will affect an individual, it's not really a good idea!patrickjames said:
Al Patterson said:
Just as long as he doesn't get a job at the post office...
colyn
ישו משיח
foto_fool said:
The only people I ever knew in the news business has long since moved on.
colyn
ישו משיח
landsknechte said:
I can't name the company but it isn't a small mom & pop business. I'm not sure whether they are national though I do know they are in several cities here in Texas..
Steve B
Established
Added value
Added value
Well, like all above I'm really glad that Colyn wasn't hurt and that the rent a cop has been fired and hopefully prosecuted but the added value here is that this unbalanced individual has been removed from the security business before he really did hurt or kill someone!
I was married to a sheriff's deputy for a very short time many years ago and have seen what happens when you give people with small brains and big egos a gun and a badge. It can be very scary. A gun, a uniform and a badge of any kind can create an unbelievable power trip if the individual in question is not extremely well adjusted. I avoid any contact with guns and badges unless absolutely necessary. But if you aimed a taser at me I'd call in a New York minute. Nice work Colyn.
Added value
Well, like all above I'm really glad that Colyn wasn't hurt and that the rent a cop has been fired and hopefully prosecuted but the added value here is that this unbalanced individual has been removed from the security business before he really did hurt or kill someone!
I was married to a sheriff's deputy for a very short time many years ago and have seen what happens when you give people with small brains and big egos a gun and a badge. It can be very scary. A gun, a uniform and a badge of any kind can create an unbelievable power trip if the individual in question is not extremely well adjusted. I avoid any contact with guns and badges unless absolutely necessary. But if you aimed a taser at me I'd call in a New York minute. Nice work Colyn.
Uncle Bill
Well-known
Smart move to hand it off to a good litigation lawyer.
colyn
ישו משיח
One of the problems with this security company and maybe others is they are telling their personal that Homeland Security gives them the right to prevent photography in public places by whatever means when in fact Homeland Security does NOT ban photography nor does it give security companies these rights.
tkluck
Well-known
"The Photographers Rights"??
What on Earth is that?
Looked it up. Boy, does that require a grain or two of salt.
Useful against Cooperate America, but not very handy if Big Dog don't like you taking pictures of his ol' lady on the public sidewalk in front of a biker bar.
Having a right doesn't mean you won't get the crap beat out of you, and a civil judgment is worthless against someone with no assents, or that bears a grudge.
Reminds me of the righteous in spandex shorts who insist they have "rights" to ride their bicycle regardless of common sense. Of course the Darwin Principle takes care of them eventually.
Then again, on the plus side, the Canadians decided that women have the same right to take their shirts off that men do. Of course the Newton Principia takes care of them eventually.
What on Earth is that?
Looked it up. Boy, does that require a grain or two of salt.
Useful against Cooperate America, but not very handy if Big Dog don't like you taking pictures of his ol' lady on the public sidewalk in front of a biker bar.
Having a right doesn't mean you won't get the crap beat out of you, and a civil judgment is worthless against someone with no assents, or that bears a grudge.
Reminds me of the righteous in spandex shorts who insist they have "rights" to ride their bicycle regardless of common sense. Of course the Darwin Principle takes care of them eventually.
Then again, on the plus side, the Canadians decided that women have the same right to take their shirts off that men do. Of course the Newton Principia takes care of them eventually.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I fear this thread will soon deteriorate, so I'll try to be thoughtful and well-mannered.
Yes, there is a difference between rights and wisdom. However, failing to make the effort to assert and protect one's rights is never wise. How it is done is extremely important, and each situation will dictate a wise course of action. In this instance, Colyn exercised great tact & wisdom, IMO.
But if we hide behind the expedient, we soon will have no rights to protect.
Yes, there is a difference between rights and wisdom. However, failing to make the effort to assert and protect one's rights is never wise. How it is done is extremely important, and each situation will dictate a wise course of action. In this instance, Colyn exercised great tact & wisdom, IMO.
But if we hide behind the expedient, we soon will have no rights to protect.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
colyn said:
They can, however, prevent photography on private property.
tkluck
Well-known
Trius said:
At the risk of playing the devil's advocate, there are always two sides to every coin. I wasn't there.
I have been on both sides of these confrontations. Had my Nikorex F ground under the iron heal of fascist dogs, and had the press and the Catholic church threaten to have me fired.
I my case, I now feel sorry for that sweaty stressed out cop, but I haven't bought a newspaper or been to church (for anything but weddings or funerals) in many years.
Sometimes it isn't so much expediency as it is Noblesse oblige. At best getting a rent-a-cop fired can only be a regrettable necessity. Before he hurts someone else.
Getting a congressman fired, now that is a glorious victory.
You're right this is a deteriorating thread, perhaps trivialized by it's proximity to Veteran's Day...
We now return to agitating for a Minox forum based upon that beaded chain being the purest form of range finder.
colyn
ישו משיח
JNewell said:
That's true and why you should make sure you don't trespass.
I never step foot on private property unless I have written permission from the owner..
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
colyn said:
You don't ever walk into a corporate building, or a shopping mall without express written consent?
oftheherd
Veteran
colyn said:
Probably hopes for a couple of things. If he also sues his imployee, he seeks to imply he has no liability himself, and if you buy that, maybe you won't sue hiim also. Do whatever you lawyer suggests. He is your expert on law and has your best interests as his guide. That may or may not be true of the owner of the security company.