Pherdinand
the snow must go on
In many threads here and elsewhere, we discuss shyness and privacy issues in street photography. As an advice, it often comes up in some form, that "you should just do it openly and naturally [i.e. photographing people on the streets] and then people will soon get used to your presence/activity and forget about you".
I always wondered if this is just an overrepeated myth with a major flaw.
People on the street come and go, they have stuff to do elsewhere that's why they are on the street. To get from A to B. People on the street in most cases will not walk around for 20 minutes and they won't get used to you, because they come and go. New people appear in every second, new people that are not used to seeing you "doing your job", and pass by within a few minutes at most. And again new people, and again and again.
This "they get used to you" argument can only be valid in a small community and when you shoot at the same position very often, and e.g. day after day the same people see you taking shots. THEN, they can get used to you. But not in Paris, not in NY, not even in this small town of mine Groningen.
Would you agree?
I always wondered if this is just an overrepeated myth with a major flaw.
People on the street come and go, they have stuff to do elsewhere that's why they are on the street. To get from A to B. People on the street in most cases will not walk around for 20 minutes and they won't get used to you, because they come and go. New people appear in every second, new people that are not used to seeing you "doing your job", and pass by within a few minutes at most. And again new people, and again and again.
This "they get used to you" argument can only be valid in a small community and when you shoot at the same position very often, and e.g. day after day the same people see you taking shots. THEN, they can get used to you. But not in Paris, not in NY, not even in this small town of mine Groningen.
Would you agree?
telenous
Well-known
You 're right.
They wont get used to you.
But you will get used to them. When that happens, you shoot much more confidently and that invites less and less curious looks. Confidence gives you the edge - without it, the people have it.
They wont get used to you.
But you will get used to them. When that happens, you shoot much more confidently and that invites less and less curious looks. Confidence gives you the edge - without it, the people have it.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
alkis - i agree. but that's a different topic.
Just look at threads on this subject of shyness in street photography; how to shoot strangers; etcetera. It always comes up as advice, that you should "blend in", "just do your job" and "they will get used to you quickly". And it's not about people you often see. it's about people you see only for a few shuttertimes.
Just look at threads on this subject of shyness in street photography; how to shoot strangers; etcetera. It always comes up as advice, that you should "blend in", "just do your job" and "they will get used to you quickly". And it's not about people you often see. it's about people you see only for a few shuttertimes.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
So my question would be, i guess,: Why people keep on repeating this thing, while it's just not true in most cases?
FrankS
Registered User
Maybe the advice should say: If you go about doing your street photography with confidence, like you are supposed to be there and it's your job, people will ACCEPT you doing what you do, as they walk by.
Rafael
Mandlerian
I'm not sure that it has so much to do with people getting used to you as it does with them noticing you less when you look as though you belong. An awkward and unconfident photographer who is trying to "steal" photographs of strangers on the street stands out like a sore thumb. I think that Alkis is right. A confident photographer who just seems to be doing his or her thing is less noticed because he or she seems to belong.
Rafael
Mandlerian
ok, Frank beat me with that one.
clarence
ダメ
FrankS said:
Not if you live in a big, nasty city. Like London.
Clarence
Pablito
coco frío
You can be confident and someone can still get angry. The important thing is that there are no rules. You have to be in tune and intuitive, and have good street-smarts. And it helps to actually like people.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
"And it helps to actually like people."
Definitely.
Definitely.
Gumby
Veteran
Pablito said:
I have no data to support this, but I believe that most people are uncomfortable with (and suspicious about) a total stranger photographing them doing nothing particulary interesting. That is probably why people get angry at street photographers.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
Pherd... I find that if I'm out shooting in the city people notice and some don't notice. Situation normal. However the act of carrying a visible camera and taking photos of thing in the street often seems to attract "people who want to be photographed". Frequently I'm out shooting on major streets here in Toronto and have been stopped and directly asked to take someone's photo.
I don't know why but people do this. Equally intriguing is the fact the shots are often interesting. They don't ask for copies and I often have to offer to email jpgs to those I have photographed.
All this is another thought that perhaps the very act of being out on the street with a camera and appearing competent may just bring you a couple of 'people' who want you to take their photo. Check it out you may get the same effect that I do.
Good luck.
http://flickr.com/photos/jann/178717215
http://flickr.com/photos/jann/56212396
http://flickr.com/photos/jann/1349267160/
I don't know why but people do this. Equally intriguing is the fact the shots are often interesting. They don't ask for copies and I often have to offer to email jpgs to those I have photographed.
All this is another thought that perhaps the very act of being out on the street with a camera and appearing competent may just bring you a couple of 'people' who want you to take their photo. Check it out you may get the same effect that I do.
Good luck.
http://flickr.com/photos/jann/178717215
http://flickr.com/photos/jann/56212396
http://flickr.com/photos/jann/1349267160/
fWord
Poser
Heheh...I wouldn't try street photography in Singapore...
R
ruben
Guest
You are right Pherdinand, yet I know one exception. Within a bus, if you do not show your camera, at some moment people will loose attention towards you as new passenger. Up to that point you can study what do you want to do. Then you can gently take out your camera and shoot. A single gentle shot.
Cheers,
Ruben
Cheers,
Ruben
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R
ray_g
Guest
You are right, Pherdinand. But that pretty much is true for shooting photos of passersby. In most other scenarios like events, parades, markets, children playing, etc... instances when you would be shooting several frames of the same crowd or location, the advice may be sound.
Personally, I often find the opposite to be true. Instead of lurking and trying to blend in, say in NYC, it sometimes helps to look like a tourist -- because tourists are expected to take photos. I guess by doing what is expected of you,it makes you less conspicuous, and makes people less apt to wonder "What the he** is this guy doing?"
Still, it goes without saying that there are vast cultural differences from place to place, as some posters have alluded to. "Rules" are well and good, but you just need to be sensitive to the people where you are and use common sense. Here's an extreme example posted by EddieCon in a past thread:
well, it may have been an isolated case but my friend's arm got stabbed by a balisong after he took a photo of some homeless person in quiapo (In the Philippines). someone from behind just appeared and demanded that he erase the photo. he explained that it was a film camera and he could not erase it. well, he pulled his balisong out, lunged for my friend's chest; my friend shielded himself with his arm; and the assailant just walked away. he had an M2 and i was wondering if that would have been a good shield or a weapon...
Luckily, I have not had such misfortune. I have been chased by a very BIG angry lady swinging a very heavy purse, though.
Personally, I often find the opposite to be true. Instead of lurking and trying to blend in, say in NYC, it sometimes helps to look like a tourist -- because tourists are expected to take photos. I guess by doing what is expected of you,it makes you less conspicuous, and makes people less apt to wonder "What the he** is this guy doing?"
Still, it goes without saying that there are vast cultural differences from place to place, as some posters have alluded to. "Rules" are well and good, but you just need to be sensitive to the people where you are and use common sense. Here's an extreme example posted by EddieCon in a past thread:
well, it may have been an isolated case but my friend's arm got stabbed by a balisong after he took a photo of some homeless person in quiapo (In the Philippines). someone from behind just appeared and demanded that he erase the photo. he explained that it was a film camera and he could not erase it. well, he pulled his balisong out, lunged for my friend's chest; my friend shielded himself with his arm; and the assailant just walked away. he had an M2 and i was wondering if that would have been a good shield or a weapon...
Luckily, I have not had such misfortune. I have been chased by a very BIG angry lady swinging a very heavy purse, though.
marke
Well-known
Pablito said:
That's it!
No rules:
Each moment is unique in itself. You can apply past experience to determine how to shoot, but you must also be prepared to let go of an preconceived notions.
In tune (street smarts) and intuitive:
Become familiar with the local culture and even the culture of that particular neighborhood you're shooting in. Intuition comes from using your past experience and ability to still remain flexible, so that your actions now come without thought.
Like people:
If you approach street photography with a (I'll say) "love" for humans, no matter what they might think of you, I think most people with see you in a different light. Something as simple as a genuine smile can offer incfredible influence in how a stranger might take to you pointing a camera at him.
R
ruben
Guest
marke said:
This is a rule too. But I like the general outline of mark, in the sense that it reminds us of a highly important refinement: To smell good each shooting situatiation and the mood of the people there.
This "freshness" is the one of young lovers, and could be ours if we remember it each day when we awake.
Cheers,
Ruben
Roger Hicks
Veteran
A lot depends on where you are, too. In most of the world, people either ignore you or regard it as a bit of a lark. It used to be that way everywhere but in what the French inaccurately but conveniently lump together as the 'Anglo-Saxon' countries (USA, England) it's changed a lot in the last 20 years.
In France there's quite a 'right to privacy' but very few people seem to mind being photographed.
Cheers,
R.
In France there's quite a 'right to privacy' but very few people seem to mind being photographed.
Cheers,
R.
wotalegend
Well-known
R
ruben
Guest
ruben said:
A mighty "obstacle" in our capacity to "freshness", or to judge each situation by its own, is in our own "experience", which is our greatest instrument for finding our daily way.
Therefore it seems we are required to a "fresh", or self critical, approach of our own experience.
Wow, wow, wow, it is becoming really tough ! A lot of dust to puff out.
Cheers,
Ruben
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