Going meterless

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visiondr

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I've ordered a very nice looking M4 from an RFF member. And, in order to help defer the costs of a new car (I was in a bad auto accident last week) I may have to sell my MP. So, the question is: have any of you gone from a metered M (M5,6,7,P) to a non-metered M? I feel I'm pretty good at guesstimating exposures. Sometimes I test myself prior to checking meter readings in the viewfinder. Ninety percent of the time, I'm within 1/2 to 1 stop. I think I'll try going cold turkey (that's my Thanksgiving pun 😛 ). Has anyone here done the same? What were your experiences?

Ron
 
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visiondr said:
I've ordered a very nice looking M4 from an RFF member. And, in order to help defer the costs of a new car (I was in a bad auto accident last week) I may have to sell my MP. So, the question is: have any of you gone from a metered M (M5,6,7,P) to a non-metered M? I feel I'm pretty good at guesstimating exposures. Sometimes I test myself prior to checking meter readings in the viewfinder. Ninety of the time, I'm within 1/2 to 1 stop. I think I'll try going cold turkey (that's my Thanksgiving pun 😛 ). Has anyone here done the same? What were your experiences?

Ron
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I've been doing it for a couple of decades. Practice practice practice.

Just like lacing a 3 cross.
 
I switch between metered & non-metered cameras all the time, but I always use a handheld meter w/a non-metered camera. I've never been good @ guesstimating except in very standardized situations (Sunny 16 & variants, clubs & venues I shoot in a lot, etc.), & often shoot different types of film w/widely varying ISO's, so no cold turkey for me.
 
Nothing simpler. Do like me: hang a Sekonic L-188 or L-208 on your pant's loop right next to your pocket and you're set.
When you use it, let it hang, when you're not using it, keep it in your pocket. It quickly becomes second nature.

I always have min ein my pocket, even when not shooting. I meter anything and slowly my brains picks up. I can now (as when I was younger and a freak) accurately meter a scene with my eyes and brain.

Do it and you'll see how easy it becomes.
 
I think that because I tend to use only one film and speed and develop my own B&W, it will be somewhat easier. Furcafe makes a valid point; it would be more difficult to do this if one uses several different films/speeds in challenging lighting conditions.

Maybe an inexpensive hand-held meter would be a reasonable compromise.

Any suggestions?
 
I have a Weston Master IV to use with my meterless cameras. The meter is for when I can't guess at the exposure. Us humans are smart enough not to have to use meters. I rarely use my meter.
Often I like shooting the marvelously forgiving chromogenic films like Ilford XP-2, but I can shoot in color as well.
 
If you're not born with a light meter in your head, I'd suggest you buy one. $50 to $100 will get you a decent reflected + incident. Save you film and (more importantly) mis-exposures that will cost you money and time in the darkroom/PS.

In fact, your exposures might get better with incident readings.
 
I started my Leica experience with an M6 and only later began using an M3 and an M4 (congratulations on getting an M4, by the way; I absolutely love mine). I actually enjoy shooting with the meterless cameras more since I don't have those blinking lights in the viewfinder constantly trying to tell me to change camera settings. And while I try to use my best guestimate as much as possible, I do carry a light meter with me frequently. I would recommend you pick up one of the CV II meters since they're small, accurate and match the Leica M chrome finish so well. I do have a Weston Master V with new cell installed a couple of years ago, including the incident light Invercone, each with case, all in its original box if you have any interest. I think I paid about $75 for it as is and would be happy to pass it on to you for what I paid.

-Randy
 
Randy,

Thank you for the offer. I'll have to try the camera first. I suspect I'll want some sort of meter. Have you liked the Weston Master V?

Ron

vrgard said:
I started my Leica experience with an M6 and only later began using an M3 and an M4 (congratulations on getting an M4, by the way; I absolutely love mine). I actually enjoy shooting with the meterless cameras more since I don't have those blinking lights in the viewfinder constantly trying to tell me to change camera settings. And while I try to use my best guestimate as much as possible, I do carry a light meter with me frequently. I would recommend you pick up one of the CV II meters since they're small, accurate and match the Leica M chrome finish so well. I do have a Weston Master V with new cell installed a couple of years ago, including the incident light Invercone, each with case, all in its original box if you have any interest. I think I paid about $75 for it as is and would be happy to pass it on to you for what I paid.

-Randy
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Visiondr, sorry to hear about your car accident ! About the meter, I can highly recommend the Gossen Digisix light meter. It is very small, incident / reflectant and has a small strap. I carry it with me every day, even if I don't carry a camera (seldomly happens).

I have sold my MP and bought an M4, which is on its way back from Youxin Ye. Only meterless cameras now ... (M4-P, M4, M3, IIIf, Hasselblad 500 C/M) I vary films a lot but no problem even if you carry two cameras loaded with different film speeds. As Ned stated above, carry your meter everyday and try to estimate the lighting condition as often as possible even when not shooting. Then compare with the meter reading. This way you become more and more experienced.
 
lots of good meters out there.
one of my faves is the small and accurate gossen pilot 2. never needs a battery.
i still have one even though i shoot with metered cameras now.

and ron, i hope you fared better than your car did.
joe
 
Thanks for the info and the sympathies fellas.

Maddoc/Ned your idea seems like a good one. Once I get a hand held meter, I'll do just that.

I have a lot to be thankful for this Thanksgiving. The car that broadsided me (on the driver's side) was a small and low to the ground Pontiac Grand Am. Even so, I came out of it feeling like I'd been slammed by an NFL linebacker. Shaken, a bit bruised, but otherwise just fine. I remember doing a mental self check just after impact wondering if I was in any pain and could feel my extremities. I'm pretty happy to be here and in one piece.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
 
I'm using the M4 without a meter, and it took a while to grow confident that it actually works. To help me overcome my hesitation in going meterless, I've stuck an exposure guide on the bottom plate, and another to the rear of the top cover in case one falls off. Not that I ever have to look at them; I know what's printed there. But the mere fact that they're there makes me feel I've got something to fall back on.

The weird thing about going meterless is that my exposures are more consistent than when relying on reflective metering. At least outdoors.

Indoors is a bit iffy. I have to adjust for the adaptability of the eye. But this too is improving to where I've now got quite decent exposures under arificial lighting.

Attachment: what I've got stuck on the back and bottom of the M4..
 

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  • M4_ExposureGuide.jpg
    M4_ExposureGuide.jpg
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ron, i hope there're no lasting effects from the accident. knowing your situation i'm glad we hooked up on the camera - i did want to keep it among rff'ers.

imho the best way to shoot meterless is not to shoot metered cameras. or at least set them completely to manual and ignore the meter. the more rolls you shoot relying on yourself, the better you'll become at translating your sense of the light into workable exposures. how many times do you apply some form of exposure compensation to your MP's meter? if you do, then i'd say you're well on your way to rely on your own light judgment.

carrying around a meter even when not shooting is a bit eccentric but i do it for practice, metering to check my *guesses*

best of luck.
 
Ron,

I use my M2 without a meter most of the time. I shoot B&W films and they are more forgiving than color negative or transparency film. I carry a CV Clip On meter and a Seconic Studio Deluxe Hand Held meter in my gear bag as well.

Usually I am right on, or very close, with my guesstimates. The meter helps when I get into tricky lighting or very contrasty light. I find the CV Clip On Meter very useful and recommend it.

Best regards and Happy Thanksgiving,

Bob
 
Ron have at it, it sounds like you have the understanding and the skill, just need a little push for confidence sake...

so here, ... (pushing)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! (in the US or anywhere else it's celebrate).
 
Hope you're feeling OK. Drivers here in PDX are the pits.
Depending what I'm shooting, my camera of choice might be an F100, a Minolta CLE or the M4-P and the transition from metered to unmetered isn't that difficult. But I learned to shoot without a meter, so there is a little training and experience.
Once you learn to evaluate shadows and relate this to your film, it's very easy. Though I usually haul along an incident meter with the M4-P, my practice is to check it AFTER estimating the exposure. 95% of the time I'm pretty close.
Back when I was shooting public meetings, we learned how much light there was in the rooms where we usually shot, and the subject was always across the room anyway. There was no time to meter again when a shot presented itself.
Happy Thanksgiving to the US and global members.



visiondr said:
I've ordered a very nice looking M4 from an RFF member. And, in order to help defer the costs of a new car (I was in a bad auto accident last week) I may have to sell my MP. So, the question is: have any of you gone from a metered M (M5,6,7,P) to a non-metered M? I feel I'm pretty good at guesstimating exposures. Sometimes I test myself prior to checking meter readings in the viewfinder. Ninety percent of the time, I'm within 1/2 to 1 stop. I think I'll try going cold turkey (that's my Thanksgiving pun 😛 ). Has anyone here done the same? What were your experiences?

Ron
Click to expand...
 
Something compact takes an incident reading.
I use a Gossen Super Pilot which goes down to about EV1, and keep meaning to order an adapter to convert the battery from the extinct mercury cell. My Super Pilot is probably going on 30 years old.
The Sekonic 308 series are nice but not quite as rugged and cost $200+

In Portland, Hollywood Camera and Blue Moon usually have some decent used meters.

This one is battery-free, but only drops down to EV4: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435535-REG/Sekonic_401399_L_398A_Studio_Deluxe_III.html
 
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