Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Sorry the title is misleading. I don't want to make a comparison (see the excellent blog of Zeissfan here), just throw some common remarks.
I have bought the Zeiss Ikon from Akiva (whom I thank for his courtesy; he is a gentleman and a great seller). My first impressions are the following:
1. it is very light! compared to the M2/M3. Not unexpected when we know that the ZI weighs 460g, but when we have the Zi in one hand and the M2 in the other, the weight difference seems huge. It's good that the ZI is light for street photography; on the other hand, the M2 seems much more rugged.
2. The other thing that struck me is the viewfinder/rangerfinder. It's common fact that the VF of the ZI is bigger, but that big, I didn't know!! The RF baselenght is equally impressive. In those respects, the ZI beats the M2, no contest.
3. the RF patch of the ZI is less bright than the M2's. Not a problem at all, since I find the M2 RF too contrasty. In fact, the focus with it is much easier. However, the M2 patch is much more resistant to flare; I'd say that there's no flare issue at all with the M2(/M3) VF ... it seems modern VF either from Leica - see the M5/M6 - or from Zeiss are prone to flare and I don't know why.
4. The shutter is quiet, very quiet. I don't understand why Leica is known for being silent. Of course, compared to any SLR, a Leica M (or LTM) is silent, but the ZI is just as silent as the M2 (maybe more silent); others cameras are much quieter that Leica M cameras (Contax II/Kiev; Hexar AF of course etc.)
That's all folks, for the moment. Those features make the ZI very desirable, though I guess I would keep the M2 if I had to choose only one body. Not because it's Leica, but because it's rugged and feels steady.
Some pictures now.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52180&stc=1&d=1195756790
I have bought the Zeiss Ikon from Akiva (whom I thank for his courtesy; he is a gentleman and a great seller). My first impressions are the following:
1. it is very light! compared to the M2/M3. Not unexpected when we know that the ZI weighs 460g, but when we have the Zi in one hand and the M2 in the other, the weight difference seems huge. It's good that the ZI is light for street photography; on the other hand, the M2 seems much more rugged.
2. The other thing that struck me is the viewfinder/rangerfinder. It's common fact that the VF of the ZI is bigger, but that big, I didn't know!! The RF baselenght is equally impressive. In those respects, the ZI beats the M2, no contest.
3. the RF patch of the ZI is less bright than the M2's. Not a problem at all, since I find the M2 RF too contrasty. In fact, the focus with it is much easier. However, the M2 patch is much more resistant to flare; I'd say that there's no flare issue at all with the M2(/M3) VF ... it seems modern VF either from Leica - see the M5/M6 - or from Zeiss are prone to flare and I don't know why.
4. The shutter is quiet, very quiet. I don't understand why Leica is known for being silent. Of course, compared to any SLR, a Leica M (or LTM) is silent, but the ZI is just as silent as the M2 (maybe more silent); others cameras are much quieter that Leica M cameras (Contax II/Kiev; Hexar AF of course etc.)
That's all folks, for the moment. Those features make the ZI very desirable, though I guess I would keep the M2 if I had to choose only one body. Not because it's Leica, but because it's rugged and feels steady.
Some pictures now.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52180&stc=1&d=1195756790
Attachments
Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
I love the ZI viewfinder. The shutter speeds are a bit difficult to see as my eye has to make somewhat of an effort to the left to see them.
And the Zeiss shutter is quiet for sure. Don't forget the easier loading, either.
And the Zeiss shutter is quiet for sure. Don't forget the easier loading, either.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
If they made a mechanical ZI (not battery dependent) I'd be a lot more tempted. And I've shot quite a lot of film with both ZI and M2.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
photogdave
Shops local
I loaded film into a Zeiss Ikon yesterday. I find loading an M faster!digitalintrigue said:I love the ZI viewfinder. The shutter speeds are a bit difficult to see as my eye has to make somewhat of an effort to the left to see them.
And the Zeiss shutter is quiet for sure. Don't forget the easier loading, either.
Which M? Not all Ms have the same loading.
I would venture that after loading a few rolls in a ZI, most everyone would find it easier/faster.
I would venture that after loading a few rolls in a ZI, most everyone would find it easier/faster.
mfogiel
Veteran
I think there could be some doubt which RF to chose if you do not wear glasses and have to work away from civilization, hence the battery story. For any glass wearer the ZI is simply a no brainer first RF choice.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Which is one reason I wear a monocle.mfogiel said:
Cheers,
R.
photogdave
Shops local
M4 and M6 with the rapid load system. With a bit of practice and faith in the system I find it faster than a swing back. I'm sure others would agree.digitalintrigue said:
Supposedly keeps your film flatter too!
ferider
Veteran
photogdave said:
Second that. M6 is faster to load than hinged back for me, in fact
faster than any other non-motorized camera that I have tried.
Thanks for the comparison, Marc, in particular your comments on
the noise.
What scares me off the ZI (compared to the M2) is that
- it's almost twice the price on the used market
- it's harder to fix (still haven't found DIY alignment instructions, for instance)
What attracts me:
- EBL and metal shutter.
Roland.
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ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I'm interested in the noise thing.
I'm wavering between Leica and Zeiss - Leica for the 'silent' shutter and Zeiss for the film loading.
Now I hear (!) that the Zeiss shutter isn't at all loud my decision is much simpler.
I'm wavering between Leica and Zeiss - Leica for the 'silent' shutter and Zeiss for the film loading.
Now I hear (!) that the Zeiss shutter isn't at all loud my decision is much simpler.
Big Hairy Bee
barnacker
mfogiel said:
How does the Bessa R2M or R2A compare? I am about to purchase my first RF and am looking at M2, M4P, Ikon, or Bessa...
FrankS
Registered User
A Leica M camera, if not serviced or properly set up, can be quite a bit louder than one that is. Perhaps a ZI can compare to such a one.
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Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
digitalintrigue said:And the Zeiss shutter is quiet for sure. Don't forget the easier loading, either.
I agree with you. The loading is easier.
I don't know the rapid loading system on M4 and M6, but I know the loading system on the M2 ... well it's faster and easier on the ZI, believe me.
Best
Marc
mfogiel
Veteran
Big Hairy Bee,
If I had to buy my first M camera without the AE, I would probably get a Leica, as this will cure you of the craving to have one, and will probably teach you that the AE on a rangefinder is the right thing. However, if you want to buy an AE RF, then I would definitely get the ZI. The Bessas are ok, but they do not hold up mechanically so well, even if the R4A is a bit better made than the previous models. Since you will probably end up buying more cameras in the future, my hint would be: get the ZI, M3, or Bessa R4A as the first camera, this way if you decide to buy the other ones later, you will have 3 different VF magnifications handy ( 0.74 ZI, 0.52 R4A, 1.0 M3).
If I had to buy my first M camera without the AE, I would probably get a Leica, as this will cure you of the craving to have one, and will probably teach you that the AE on a rangefinder is the right thing. However, if you want to buy an AE RF, then I would definitely get the ZI. The Bessas are ok, but they do not hold up mechanically so well, even if the R4A is a bit better made than the previous models. Since you will probably end up buying more cameras in the future, my hint would be: get the ZI, M3, or Bessa R4A as the first camera, this way if you decide to buy the other ones later, you will have 3 different VF magnifications handy ( 0.74 ZI, 0.52 R4A, 1.0 M3).
arseniii
Well-known
I own Leica for 2 years now, I can load it in 10-15 sec. I wish I could try Z.Ikon by I haven't seen any of them on display here in Canada. Looks delicate on pictures, BTW. M6TTL is a bit louder compared to M2 and M3...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Loading early Leicas, especially without a quick-load adapter, can be slower; the adapter speeds things somewhat. Loading later Leicas (with the 3-prong take-up spool) takes about the same amount of time, but is different.
I am currently using three methods: QL on the M2s, 3-prong on the M4P and Mp, and ZI SW.
Cheers,
R.
I am currently using three methods: QL on the M2s, 3-prong on the M4P and Mp, and ZI SW.
Cheers,
R.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
But don't you need three hands to hold the camera, the base, and the film at the same time?
Or am I missing something?
Or am I missing something?
alexz
Well-known
Xmm, while entering the world of RF and Leica in particular, I was also frightened by Leica loading readnig forums and opinions....unless get acquinted with my M6. At first, of course, few loading issues, then it took a few days to get used to it and now loading M6 is nearly as swift as other manual cameras with hinged back. The only hassle is to keep the bottom plate handy. Since then, no single misload and no suffering at all while loading.
Then, acquiring M3 I was also warned by many about its problematic and even horrible loading system - went with it, took a few hours to excercise, that's it. Sure, a bit more labor then M4/6, keeping spool/s, etc...but once getting used to - makes nearly second nature. So far did not experienced any particular issues with M3 loading (I have no rapid loading kit).
All that mourning about M loading seems to be exaggerated at least... (IMHO)..
Then, acquiring M3 I was also warned by many about its problematic and even horrible loading system - went with it, took a few hours to excercise, that's it. Sure, a bit more labor then M4/6, keeping spool/s, etc...but once getting used to - makes nearly second nature. So far did not experienced any particular issues with M3 loading (I have no rapid loading kit).
All that mourning about M loading seems to be exaggerated at least... (IMHO)..
kully
Happy Snapper
ClaremontPhoto said:
Your teeth (for the base)