JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
I was shooting 35mm negs with a friend just now, and tommorrow we are going to go get our rolls developed. I was shooting Fuji color film, and my friend was shooting Kodak B&W Professional Tmax p3200.
We were planning on getting them developed at Wal-Mart tommorrow, but then my friend said that he didn't think Wal-Mart developed his B&W film because it doesn't say C41 on the film canister like mine does.
Does C41 refer to the way color film is developed at places like Wal-Mart? Are there B&W C41 films?
How can one distinguish whether a B&W film is made to be developed at home, or by a company such as Wal-Mart?
,thanx
We were planning on getting them developed at Wal-Mart tommorrow, but then my friend said that he didn't think Wal-Mart developed his B&W film because it doesn't say C41 on the film canister like mine does.
Does C41 refer to the way color film is developed at places like Wal-Mart? Are there B&W C41 films?
How can one distinguish whether a B&W film is made to be developed at home, or by a company such as Wal-Mart?
,thanx
cmedin
Well-known
There are C41 B&W films (XP2, BW400CN, and I can't remember the Fuji one), but the Tmax 3200 isn't one. It needs to be developed as a 'true' black/white film.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
So there is no company that will do it for him?
Is C-41 the "true" way to develop color film or is there a more professional way?
Is C-41 the "true" way to develop color film or is there a more professional way?
cmedin
Well-known
C41 is the standard for color negative film. Nothing more or less professional available, it's just the way it's developed.
There are plenty of companies who'll dev B&W film, in fact your local Wal-Mart might even accept the film and send it out. They just won't do it in-house in an hour.
There are plenty of companies who'll dev B&W film, in fact your local Wal-Mart might even accept the film and send it out. They just won't do it in-house in an hour.
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
So professional photographers have to settle with C-41 if they shoot color?
Is that a reason B&W is popular for professionals?
Is that a reason B&W is popular for professionals?
alien8
Established
For color negative films, yes, it is all developed using the c-41 process. There is also the option of shooting color slides using either the E6 reversal process or the kodachrome process. Of course, there's also digital....JeremyLangford said:
jbf
||||||
All color film is developed with C-41. So in that sense your not settling for anything. All color film is developed the same. The process is the same no matter if a professional lab does it, or a smaller 'normal' lab (such as walmart or wallgreens, etc).
Most professional film developing labs will develop B&W and color as well.
However the thing is that there is a type of black and white film which can be developed using the C-41 or color film processing method. This is not a true B&W film, but a type of film developed for non professional use that can be developed at any 1 hour photo lab.
Whereas true B&W cannot be developed at just any 1 hour photo lab. It must be done by a traditional black and white chemistry lab.
Most professional film developing labs will develop B&W and color as well.
However the thing is that there is a type of black and white film which can be developed using the C-41 or color film processing method. This is not a true B&W film, but a type of film developed for non professional use that can be developed at any 1 hour photo lab.
Whereas true B&W cannot be developed at just any 1 hour photo lab. It must be done by a traditional black and white chemistry lab.
nodyad
Member
Think of C-41 as a system: it is a particular formulation of chemicals and processing times for color negative films that are designed for this processing system. Practically all color negative films today, from the cheap film in off-brand disposable cameras to the high-end Kodak Portra and Fuji Reala color print films, are C-41 based. Theoretically, a roll of low-end film could be developed at either WalMart or a pro lab with no difference, and vice versa for the high-end film (although a pro might want to eliminate all possible variables such as age of solutions by using a pro lab).
There is a different system, already mentioned, called E-6 that is used for color slides (or color transparencies). This process is not compatible with C-41, although you might sometimes see some experiments done by "cross processing" negative color film with the E-6 chemicals, or slide film with C-41. I suggest that you don't get caught up with cross processing until you have really mastered the conventional processes.
Now, to mess with your mind for a bit, there a type of B&W film called "chromagenic" that is dye-based (using the C-41 process) rather than silver-based (using conventional develop/fix formulas). The box and cassette for this type of film will say clearly "Process C-41" on it. Most other black and white film, however, is silver-based.
So, if your friend were to use the chromagenic B&W film, and you used Kodak Gold or Portra, you both could process your films at any C-41 lab, even a 1-hour lab in a mall. As it is, your friend will have to send his film to an off-site lab that provides conventional silver-based processing, and therefore it may take 2 days or so to be returned rather than 1 hour.
There is no "best" for either type of film. But if you both want to get results from the lab right away, the C-41-based films, whether color negative or chromagenic B&W, will give you the fastest impulse relief!
There is a different system, already mentioned, called E-6 that is used for color slides (or color transparencies). This process is not compatible with C-41, although you might sometimes see some experiments done by "cross processing" negative color film with the E-6 chemicals, or slide film with C-41. I suggest that you don't get caught up with cross processing until you have really mastered the conventional processes.
Now, to mess with your mind for a bit, there a type of B&W film called "chromagenic" that is dye-based (using the C-41 process) rather than silver-based (using conventional develop/fix formulas). The box and cassette for this type of film will say clearly "Process C-41" on it. Most other black and white film, however, is silver-based.
So, if your friend were to use the chromagenic B&W film, and you used Kodak Gold or Portra, you both could process your films at any C-41 lab, even a 1-hour lab in a mall. As it is, your friend will have to send his film to an off-site lab that provides conventional silver-based processing, and therefore it may take 2 days or so to be returned rather than 1 hour.
There is no "best" for either type of film. But if you both want to get results from the lab right away, the C-41-based films, whether color negative or chromagenic B&W, will give you the fastest impulse relief!
JeremyLangford
I'd really Leica Leica
jbf said:
Is the traditional, true B&W developing you refer to, the same thing that I do at school in my B&W photography class or the same thing people do at home when they develop their own B&W negs using Dev, Stop, Fix, HCA, etc.?
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
Yes TMAX should be developed as you mention/learned
Color film is quite different, instead of silver it consists of several layers of differnt colors. It is developed in a similar way than BW but with different chemistry.
C41 is the name of one of the development processes, long time ago many companies produced color film and had different processes AGFA, KODAK, 3M, etc.
The process was more or less standardized to C41 in the 70s due to consumer demand to drop things in the mini labs.... the kingdom of the masses!
Color film is quite different, instead of silver it consists of several layers of differnt colors. It is developed in a similar way than BW but with different chemistry.
C41 is the name of one of the development processes, long time ago many companies produced color film and had different processes AGFA, KODAK, 3M, etc.
The process was more or less standardized to C41 in the 70s due to consumer demand to drop things in the mini labs.... the kingdom of the masses!
oscroft
Veteran
Yes, that's it
mike goldberg
The Peaceful Pacific
Hi Jeremy, and hi Alan. Alan, it seems you left Jerusalem all too quickly... were you transferred?
Jeremy, the keywords in your query are "true-way." Of course, there is no one true way. B & W films that can be developed along with color film... like Kodak BW400 C41 and Ilford XP2, are great for tests. Some guys prefer them, because developing silver based films [Tri-X, Tmax, HP5+, Neopan, etc.] at home is a drudge for some. Note that Kodak BW400 C41 has a magenta cast, and Ilford XP2 has a green cast. Aparently the color cast helps the labs somehow, in their processing. I find I have to desaturate substantially in editing.
Much has been written about film developing in RFF. There are factors such as Time & Temp, Agitation, Contrast, Pushing film to a higher ISO, Pulling film to a lower ISO, Scanning, etc., etc. Just have a look in our Film/Developing/Scanning forum below. Although "acceptable" and even interesting B/W results can be had in digital... for many RFF'ers controlled film developing at home, and the establishment of personalized procedures with QC, is an integral part of the process of fine B & W photography.
Yes, there have been some improvements to B/W film in recent years, and perhaps there's a few new chemicals. Other than that, the process hasn't changed much since I developed Tri-X in D76 1:1 some 20 years ago. Whatever you choose, let it be "true" for you.
Good luck, Mike
Jeremy, the keywords in your query are "true-way." Of course, there is no one true way. B & W films that can be developed along with color film... like Kodak BW400 C41 and Ilford XP2, are great for tests. Some guys prefer them, because developing silver based films [Tri-X, Tmax, HP5+, Neopan, etc.] at home is a drudge for some. Note that Kodak BW400 C41 has a magenta cast, and Ilford XP2 has a green cast. Aparently the color cast helps the labs somehow, in their processing. I find I have to desaturate substantially in editing.
Much has been written about film developing in RFF. There are factors such as Time & Temp, Agitation, Contrast, Pushing film to a higher ISO, Pulling film to a lower ISO, Scanning, etc., etc. Just have a look in our Film/Developing/Scanning forum below. Although "acceptable" and even interesting B/W results can be had in digital... for many RFF'ers controlled film developing at home, and the establishment of personalized procedures with QC, is an integral part of the process of fine B & W photography.
Yes, there have been some improvements to B/W film in recent years, and perhaps there's a few new chemicals. Other than that, the process hasn't changed much since I developed Tri-X in D76 1:1 some 20 years ago. Whatever you choose, let it be "true" for you.
Good luck, Mike
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