Spool your own film Economics 101

Tom A turned me on to the IXMOO cartridges, and I've had no problems with scratches since adopting them, and loading them in the dark directly from a bulk roll. And I recently picked up some HP5 movie film for $45 for a 400 foot roll. That's makes for pretty cheap B&W shooting. Heck, if it was only about $$ I'd stick with digital and desaturate. But this way I can shoot lots with my favourite camera.
 
As I said earlier, this idea was prompted by a new Watson loader in a local shop for $32. I suppose if I really want to save money I should buy a loaded from a friendly RFF member.

"Bueller? Bueller? Anybody?"

Is there a nice low mileage bulk film loader out there collecting dust? Would like to find it a good home? What about that roll of bulk film taking up space in your freezer? I have cash.

There are two mini labs within walking distance from my abode. I should be able to get empty canisters from them.
 
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My local (all analogue BTW) photo store proprietor saw me about to purchase a Watson bulk loader and stopped me by saying something to the effect of: "so, you might save some money that way, but the frustration of rolls and rolls of scratched emulsions will eventually drive you crazy." He was serious and funny too. Come to think of it, all I ever hear about bulk loading is that same problem. Scratches that ruin your precious images. Who wants that? If you never have problems like that, you must be blessed by the gods.
 
visiondr said:
My local (all analogue BTW) photo store proprietor saw me about to purchase a Watson bulk loader and stopped me by saying something to the effect of: "so, you might save some money that way, but the frustration of rolls and rolls of scratched emulsions will eventually drive you crazy." He was serious and funny too. Come to think of it, all I ever hear about bulk loading is that same problem. Scratches that ruin your precious images. Who wants that? If you never have problems like that, you must be blessed by the gods.
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How many times will I have t repeat this? ALL my shots except from this past summer are done with rolled film. Not a single scratch.

No need to be blessed by the gods. Just act intelligently and roll away.

A Bulk loader is extremely simple. open and close. The only way to scratch film is either to be ignorant about how a bulk loader works or by not caring for the canisters.

I've exhibited many images, I shoot regularly and I have yet to run on a scratched roll.
 
But I've seen idiots scratching their films with bulk loaders. The didn't care to use it correctly (open the way for film to go freely into the canisters). They we're such idiots. You could actually hear the film screetch... I think those people don't have a right to complain-- But they did. They tried to give bulk loding a bad name...

Do it correctly and you won't see a scratch. As simple as that.
 
itl, Arita Edu Ultra is Foma film and is available in 100, 200 and 400 iso from Freestyle Photo. It comes pre-loaded and in 100 ft bulk rolls.
I have scratched my negatives in the past but have figured out ways to avoid it now.
 
I use only film Black and white and slides and I have a fridge full of bulk of velvia, T-MAX 400, TRI-X 400, T-MAX 3200 and Neopan PRESTO. Very easy to use bulk and very flessible method
 
I just ordered some bulk film & supplies for the first time this week. One too many "Damn, I need film NOW. No time to order on-line" moments resulting in my going to the local camera shop, and leaving with three more rolls of Hp5+, and 20 less dollar bills. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm eager to spool up a few short rolls to finally calibrate my own personal ISO & development time, and then make a big reserve of full loaded spools. $2.20/roll looks good to me, seeing as the cheapest I see HP5+ at the web vendors is about $4.

All this talk of being horrible process & always scratching seems fishy to me. If something like this just didn't work, or was seriously hard to to do without wrecking all your film, how did it manage to stay in the market for decades? I tend to guess that for every person who has a boo-boo and goes and complains on a forum, there are plenty more out there doing just fine, who don't feel the need to vent about how it hasn't gone wrong yet. Guess I'll find out soon enough.
 
I've yet to have a problem bulk loading, and I reuse my film canisters several times - I'm a frugal yankee, what can I say? Maybe I've just been lucky regarding scratching negatives:rolleyes:.

Where I live, we are down to one (1) photo shop within 40 miles of my house (three years ago we had 4, two have closed in the last month) The one shop we do have sometimes carries Tri-X, sometimes FP4, once in a while HP5, sometimes no B&W, they are primarily digital. They can, of course, order anything one wants, but I can do that myself for less money. I began loading my own film years ago for two reasons, 1. It really does cost roughly half the amount of money vs. pre-rolled, and 2. I found that loading my own was the best way to assure I would have film when I wanted/needed it.
 
I bulk load most of the time too. Don't have a loader so doing it Barnack-style.

I use IXMOOs on M4, similar Zeiss design on Contax II and ordinary Fomapan 400 cassettes in either - those open easily without damage and work OK as reusable. I can't recall any experience with scratches, in fact most (if not all) scratches I had on film were with original manufacturer's cassettes.
 
I don't do it, but I plan to purchase some bulk rolls of my favorite films as soon as I start hearing rumors of their demise. I unfortunately don't have enough time to shoot enough film that the cost savings would make it worth the time spent doing it....or, maybe that's just my excuse for being lazy.

Paul
 
Been a bulk guy for 40 years. I got as many scratches from factory as bulk.

Just keep everything clean and you will be fine.
 
I have been bulk loading for the past 5 or so years, by myself, and in highschool. I re use canisters until I lose them, and they float around in the bottom of bags for a while, or in my pockets, or under desks ect. You get the point. Who knows how old the canisters were at my highschool, reused hundreds of times by teenagers that didn't really care. They were kept in an open dusty box.

The only negs that I can remember coming out scratched were pre rolled delta 100 that I bought from the lab. I've never scratched my own. I use Patterson loaders, and the cheap metal 1 dollar canisters.
 
i did have some Shirley Wellards a while ago. they actually do work very well, but my only problem was that in the dark, with 30-40 IXMOO's I always managed to mix them up!
The best case for loading your own is Sebastian Salgado - when he did the SAHEL book, he travelled around Ethiopia with a couple of M's and Tri-X in bulk rolls. He did have limited amount of cassettes (I dont know if they were IXMOOS) and as he used up film, he would unload the cassettes and stick the 5ft 5" long strips abck in the filmcan and load up fresh film!
A friend of mine did the same thing on a trip to Russia in the early 90's. He spent 6 month criss crossing that huge country. Limited amount of cassettes and when he returned he handed me 5-6 100ft cans and asked if I could process them for him. I did think that he had put 16-18 rolls in each can, but he had managed to stick 25-30 in each!
There was also the problem that he had mixed up a couple of cans and had both Tri X and Russian Type 17 (an aerial surveillance film that he picked up for $2/100ft while there). I did settle on Beutler as a standard, Tri X gets a bit grainy in this, but it suited the subject and the Type 17 was OK. However, I think the Cold War was a sham - you could not distinquish between an outhouse and a T-34 with that film!

For commercial work, I dont think I would bother with "home rolled", but as i tend to use a lot of film privately (between 600-800 rolls/year) a saving of $2-3/roll adds up!
 
Tom A said:
For commercial work, I dont think I would bother with "home rolled", but as i tend to use a lot of film privately (between 600-800 rolls/year) a saving of $2-3/roll adds up!
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I'll say.

Hmm - I might look into finding a few Shirley Wellards and giving it another shot. Not having any leica's currently (tho one is one the way) I haven't been able to take advantage of the IXMOOs.
 
Tom A said:
There are several reason why I roll my own. One is the obvious, price. Buying Double XX movie stock (bl/w 250 asa) at $140/400 ft spools - it is LESS than $2/roll. The second reason is storage. A 400 ft can of film takes up far less space than 75 rolls!
To avoid scratches, I use either Leica IXMOO cassettes or the Nikon cassettes. These open "wide" and virtually eliminate scratches. The "standard" cassette can and ultimately will scratch the film (i use these cassettes 3 times and then chuck them).
When I travel I tend to use "pre loads" as the current paranoia seems to think any all metal brass container is a cartridge for some weapon.
OK, admittedly - loading 75 or 150 IXMOO;s is a really boring way to spend an evening, but if I tell myself "I am saving $200 or $400" it is not too bad. Loading 800 ft (150 IXMOOS) takes about 3-4 hours and that gives me saving of $100/hour.So it doesn't really make sense, but it cuts down on the procrastination!
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Tom, where do you buy this film stock? I expect the roll is too large to fit into a bulk film loader like my Watson, what do you load with? And finally, what do you do for developing data?

Thanks,
 
Tom A said:
i did have some Shirley Wellards a while ago. they actually do work very well, but my only problem was that in the dark, with 30-40 IXMOO's I always managed to mix them up!
The best case for loading your own is Sebastian Salgado - when he did the SAHEL book, he travelled around Ethiopia with a couple of M's and Tri-X in bulk rolls. He did have limited amount of cassettes (I dont know if they were IXMOOS) and as he used up film, he would unload the cassettes and stick the 5ft 5" long strips abck in the filmcan and load up fresh film!
A friend of mine did the same thing on a trip to Russia in the early 90's. He spent 6 month criss crossing that huge country. Limited amount of cassettes and when he returned he handed me 5-6 100ft cans and asked if I could process them for him. I did think that he had put 16-18 rolls in each can, but he had managed to stick 25-30 in each!
There was also the problem that he had mixed up a couple of cans and had both Tri X and Russian Type 17 (an aerial surveillance film that he picked up for $2/100ft while there). I did settle on Beutler as a standard, Tri X gets a bit grainy in this, but it suited the subject and the Type 17 was OK. However, I think the Cold War was a sham - you could not distinquish between an outhouse and a T-34 with that film!

For commercial work, I dont think I would bother with "home rolled", but as i tend to use a lot of film privately (between 600-800 rolls/year) a saving of $2-3/roll adds up!
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Dear Tom,

Both Sebastiao Salgado and your chum are braver men than I!

But even at 600 rolls a year -- a dozen a week -- I can see why you might roll your own.

I've had very little trouble with scratching, but I much prefer 'open' loading in the darkroom to bulk loaders, which seldom open or close cassettes reliably. I doubt that my wife and I shoot more than 200-300 rolls of 35mm B+W per year between us, so the savings aren't quite as compelling. Also, of course, all of it is a business expense for us: we are in effect paid amateurs, shooting amateur-styler pics for books, magazines and the web-site.

Digital has saved me a fortune in Polaroids and slide processing for pack shots, step-by-steps and the like, to say nothing of the time saved.

Cheers,

Roger
 
I like the less trash. Yeah, it's not going to influence my local landfill, but I don't mind loading, so why not.
 
The Double XX is available from Kodak's Motion Picture Division. It is a 250 asa (daylight) and about 200asa (tungsten). The original Super XX ultimately become Tri X and the Double XX is a motion picture version of this emulsion. It is still being produced by Kodak/Rochester. Seeminglingly there is enough demand from Hollywood for this type of stock.
There used to be a Leica Bulk-loader for 400 ft reels (the original film for the first Leicas in the twenties was movie stock! The concept of the 24x36 frame came from moviemakers using 35mm cameras as exposure meters. Run a short strip of film through and prodess and check - rather than having to go through the process of using 100 or 400 magazines from the movie-camera).
I use the same system as Roger "open arm loading". Stretched out between your hands (arms fully extended gives you between 35-38 exposures.
If you go to our YouTube

http://ca.youtube.com/profile?user=TnTandMrB


you can see a quick lesson in loading IXMOO cassettes. - You can also look at the video clip of the boss in our household "Mr B". After this aired, we have had several job applications for his job and even the requirement that the succesful applicant gets neutered does not seem to deter them.
Tom
 
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