Newbie RF Questions

[snegron]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here. I have several questions regarding Nikon rangefinders:


1. Can I load a modern 35mm roll of film into an old S2, or do I need to pre-load film into a special Nikon film canister like the instruction manual illustrates?

2. I have never used a rangefinder before, although I have always wanted one. I have my sights set on an S2 (chrome dial) with 50mm 1.4 S C (chrome) lens. Is it a decent useable camera?

3. Why does there seem to be more info on Leica, Canon, and Contax rangefinders out there and not so much so with Nikon rangefinders? What I mean by this is that on other forums all the talk and recommendations seem to be about those other cameras. It is as if when someone asks what rangefinder would be a good choice to get started in the rangefinder world almost no one seems to recommend Nikon rangefinders. Is this because of the somewhat higher price (Leica M series are more expensive though), limited availability, etc?

4. Will I be making a mistake by purchasing that Nikon S2? I currently own a bunch of 35mm Nikon film cameras (F, Ftn Photomic, F2A, F3HP, F100, N80) and a few Nikon DSLR's (two D1X's and two D200's). I enjoy buying and using old Nikons and I have always wanted to try a rangefinder.

Thanks for reading and any comments will be appreciated.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

Welcome. The Nikon S2 takes over the counter film just like the other Nikons. Excellent camera & great lens. For me the glass in the S2 & Canon P are about equal. I feel the M6 with its glass is better but more expensive. The M6 also has a meter and is quieter than the other two. If you like the Nikon line & glass, which it appears that you do & there is nothing wrong with that then by all means get the S2. Check when it had its last CLA. The rangefinder needs to be clear. I have seen older ones foggy & the focus ring stiff.

 

[snegron]

Welcome. The Nikon S2 takes over the counter film just like the other Nikons. Excellent camera & great lens. For me the glass in the S2 & Canon P are about equal. I feel the M6 with its glass is better but more expensive. The M6 also has a meter and is quieter than the other two. If you like the Nikon line & glass, which it appears that you do & there is nothing wrong with that then by all means get the S2. Check when it had its last CLA. The rangefinder needs to be clear. I have seen older ones foggy & the focus ring stiff.

Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely give it a close inspection. One of the reasons I am looking at the S2 is because of the lower price compared to M series Leicas. This S2 with lens will cost me less than a 50mm Leica lens! I have read about rangefinders with cloth shutters having holes or patches. Is this a common problem? The seller did not mention anything about holes or patches on this S2, but I still will check to see its condition.

As far as the lens goes, how does the 50mm 1.4 SC compare to the 50mm 1.4 F mount version? I have a couple of F mount 1.4's (the non AIS Nikkor S-C and an AIS version), and I believe that they are the sharpest lenses I have ever used. Is the rangefinder version as sharp as these two?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Looks like you've got most of the information you need already, but I'll just add that I think an S2 with 50mm lens is the perfect Nikon RF setup to start out with 😉

I think the main reason you don't hear much about Nikon rangefinders is because so few were made in the first place (compared to Leica etc.) so there just aren't that many users out there to talk about them. There were only about 57,000 Nikon S2's made, and the S2 is the most numerous of the Nikon RFs by far. In comparison, only 22,000 or so SPs, 14,000 or so S3s, and 6,000 or so S4s were made. I forget the numbers on the M and S. There are also the 8,000 reissue chrome S3s sold from the year 2000, plus the 2,000 black reissue S3s sold from 2002, and the 2,500 reissue SPs sold from 2005. If you can get your hands on one, the reissue 50mm f1.4 (a.k.a. the "millenium" 50) sold with the reissue S3s is an awesome lens, and would be perfect on an S2. It vastly outperforms its vintage cousins, although the vintage lenses also have their own charm.

If you buy wisely, but find that the S2 is not for you, you should easily be able to sell it and get your money back.

 

[snegron]

Thanks again for all the responses! I think I'm going to really enjoy spending a lot of time in this forum!

As for the Nikon S2, and other Nikon rangefinders in general, are most people just collecting them due to their scarce numbers, or are there many people who still use them regularly?

I enjoy collecting and using old equipment. I get a kick out of going on a weekend shooting adventure every now and then with my old F's and medium format equipment. I am looking forward to actually using the S2 on a few of these outings!


Also, I have not used the "sunny 16 rule" for some time now. A few months ago I did with my old F with standard unmetered prism, and the results were pretty decent. I was lucky it was late afternoon, so the exposure was easy to judge. I have seen tiny meters attatched to rangefinders (the Voigtlander and the Digisix). Any preferences?

 

[jonmanjiro]

I have seen tiny meters attatched to rangefinders (the Voigtlander and the Digisix). Any preferences?

I've tried both and prefer the Voigtlander meter. The Digisix is a good meter, but with a clock, timer, etc. I found it be a bit over featured. YMMV.

Jon

 

[VinceC]

First, I'd recommend using the meter handheld. Once you gain a few hours experience, it's much easier to keep the meter in a shirt pocket or pocket of your camera bag and only use it when needed. Keeping it on the camera actually slows down the whole metering process.

Secondly, the classic 5cm F1.4 lens is extremely sharp but behaves differently than the later design used for the SLR F cameras. It has a little bit of old-fashioned glowing highlights wide open, is prone to flare in backlight situations when wide open, and can have some "harsh" out-of-focus highlights when slightly stopped down. Especially wide open, it can have darkened corners. On the plus side, can render some exquisite images that aren't quite the same when shot with a modern clinically sharp computer-designed lens. The classic 5CM F1.4 is the lens that put Nikon on the map and made the company's reputation. It was the sharpest lens of its era and, though designed on an abacus, holds its own against modern lenses. One internet reviewer (Dante Stella) claims it is "optimized" for close focusing wide open (3 feet is the minimum focus on a Nikon RF camera), and anecdotal evidence from many RFF users is that this is true ... the lens is beautiful when shooting portraits and environmental portraits at 3 to 5 feet. When focused between 10 feet and infinity wide open, the corners can get quite dark.

My gallery has some examples of the 5cm F1.4 shot wide open.

Here are two examples -- the first is minimum focus distance of 3 feet:

This is perhaps 3 1/2 or 4 feet:

And here, stopped down to about F2.8:

And here's what I mean about the slightly "harsh" out-of-focus highlights in some situations:

The redesigned SLR lens of the 1960s is much more consistent (there's a rare, collectible RF version known as the Olympic, reissued as the Millenneum -- if you can even find it, bidding will start at more than $1,000, and it behaves about the same as the SLR version -- consistently sharp from F1.4 to F16 -- a few people have done side-by-side comparisons between the Olympic/Milleneum and the latest computer-designed Leica Sumilux, with the results being that the two lenses are essentially equals in performance. The Olympic/Millenneum is the RF version of the 1960s SLR lens you mentioned.

All in all, the classic 5cm F1.4 of the Nikon S2 era is a marvelous, historic lens. As far as the S2, if you've shot with Nikon Fs, you'll find it very familiar. The design is about 5 years older than the F, so there's a lot of shared DNA, so to speak.

For a few hundred dollars more, you can get a Nikon S3 with 5cm lens. The S3 is interesting inasmuch as it has the exact same controls layout and ruggedness as the Nikon F (minus the pentaprism, of course). Both the S2 and the S3 are about 10 percent smaller than the F. But note that the S2's shutter is noticeably louder than the SP and S3. The S2 has a definite "ker-klack!" sound that was muffled in later RF cameras.

Back in the 1950s, a big selling point of Nikon RF cameras was the lifesize 1:1 viewfinder, introduced with the S2. I bought my Nikon S2 in 1989. and used Nikon RFs for several years before realized that Leicas use a shrunken viewfinder image. Having used only Nikon RFs, I personally could never get comfortable with the idea of reducing the viewfinder image. The lifesize viewfinder fo the S2 and later Nikons is extremely useful. It makes the camera very much a "window to the world."

 

[snegron]

Nice images! You bring up a very interesting point regarding the control layout of the S2 vs. the SP and later rangefinders. The newer ones seem to have a very similar layout as the F. I think that one of the cool things that attracted me to the S2 was the different layout; it seems like I would be using an entirely "new-to-me" camera.

On a side note, I can't believe how expensive the lens and body caps are for the S2!

 

[VinceC]

Really, the only significant difference in conrols between the S2 and the S3/SP/Nikon F is the older shutter-speed dial that's a little slower to use (fast-speed dial and slow-speed dial) and the manually reset film counter.


You're right about the different feel. I spent a long time using my S2 to shoot personal Kodachomes alongside SLRs used for B&W news photography. I enjoyed the deliberate difference of the S2 ... you stopped for a moment to meter the light and set the shutter speed, and it was kind of nice to spend those extra few seconds setting things up.

If you wear eyeglasses, the S2 can be less forgiving. It has a very sharp round rim. The later Nikons, including the F, use a much flatter viewfinder that doesn't so easily scratch eyeglasses (especially the newer plastic ones).

 

[rbsinto]

Snegron,
If you are handy with simple tools, and not offended by the thought of using lens and body caps that aren't "real", you can save a ton of money by making them yourself from the caps of various products found in the supermarket and pharmacy. If you're interested, reply and, I'll explain how.

 

[snegron]

Snegron,
If you are handy with simple tools, and not offended by the thought of using lens and body caps that aren't "real", you can save a ton of money by making them yourself from the caps of various products found in the supermarket and pharmacy. If you're interested, reply and, I'll explain how.

I was thinking about getting one of those cheap generic lens caps (the off-brand ones that always seem to be collecting dust on camera store shelves), but I'd like to know how you make them. 🙂

 

[rbsinto]

snegron,
The front caps for lenses are the easiest. You and the lens simply walk the shelves in the pharmacy or supermarket, checking the plastic caps from various bottles until you find one that fits. If necessary, grind out the threads with a Dremmel tool to increase the inside circumference of the lid as necessary. Alternately, to tighten the fit, line the inside of the cap with pieces of Dymo label tape. I usually imprint a line of dashes on it to improve the grip before applying it.
Rear caps for rangefinder lenses (other than the 50mm) are a bit more complicated. You'll need the cap from a Deoderant called Dry Idea, and the liner from a childproof medication plastic bottle of about the same size.
Cut the bottom off the deodorant cap along the inscribed line with an exacto knife. Pull the inner part of the pill bottle out and glue it it onto the bottom of the deodorant cap, by slipping the flange over the bottom of the cap.
Then you must cut away parts of the oversized projecting ring to make three "wings" that match the slots on the rear of the lens. These wings will fit the slots and by twisting the cap they'll lock into place.
Rear caps for 50mm lenses are easy. You'll need a bottle top from a detergent for wollen things called Zero by Woolite. The 473ml (30 Ounce size) bottle has a cap that is exactly the same size as the rear cap of the 50mm lens, and even better, the body cap for a Nikon/Contax/Kiev rangefinder.
To make a back cap for the 50, cut about 5/16" thick slice off the top of the fluted part of the cap. Then cut three grooves in it to match the mounting "wings" on the rear of the 50 and slip it on.
To make a body cap for the camera, cut a slice about 3/4" thick off the round part of the cap ( the spout for pouring out measured amounts of the Woolite). the either tape one end closed with duct tape or cap it with epoxy. the open end will slip nicely into the lens mount throat of the camera, If it is a bit tight, make short cuts in the tube, as necessary.
Oh and spray paint your creations black as necessary.
I hope I've been helpful, but if these instructions are too vague, lemme know and I'll elaborate.

 

[snegron]

snegron,
The front caps for lenses are the easiest. You and the lens simply walk the shelves in the pharmacy or supermarket, checking the plastic caps from various bottles until you find one that fits. If necessary, grind out the threads with a Dremmel tool to increase the inside circumference of the lid as necessary. Alternately, to tighten the fit, line the inside of the cap with pieces of Dymo label tape. I usually imprint a line of dashes on it to improve the grip before applying it.
Rear caps for rangefinder lenses (other than the 50mm) are a bit more complicated. You'll need the cap from a Deoderant called Dry Idea, and the liner from a childproof medication plastic bottle of about the same size.
Cut th bottom off the deodorant cap along the inscribed line with an exacto knife. Pull the inner part of the pill bottle out and glue it it onto the bottom of the deodorant cap, by slipping the flange over the bottom of the cap.
Then you must cut away parts of the oversized projecting ring to make three "wings" that match the slots on the rear of the lens.these wings will fit the slots and by twisting the cap they'll lock into place.
Rear caps for 50mm lenses are easy. You'll need a bottle top from a detergent for wollen things called Zero by Woolite. The 473ml (30 Ounce size) bottle has a cap that is exactly the same size as the rear cap of the 50mm lens, and even better, the body cap for a Nikon/Contax/Kiev rangefinder.
to make a back cap for the 50, cut about 5/16" thick slice off the top of the fluted part of the cap. then cut three grooves in it to match the mounting "wings" on the rear of the 50 and slip it on.
To make a body cap for the camera, cut a slice about 3/4" thick off the round part of the cap ( the spout for pouring out measured amounts of the Woolite). the either tape one end closed with duct tape or cap it with epoxy. the open end will slip nicely into the lens mount throat of the camera, If it is a bit tight, make short cuts in the tube, as necessary.
Oh and spray paint your creations black as necessary.
I hope I've been helpful, but if these instructions are too vague, lemme know and I'll elaborate.

That is so cool! I am going to give it a shot! 🙂

 

[NIKON KIU]

Hello everyone. ....

3. Why does there seem to be more info on Leica, Canon, and Contax rangefinders out there and not so much so with Nikon rangefinders? What I mean by this is that on other forums all the talk and recommendations seem to be about those other cameras. It is as if when someone asks what rangefinder would be a good choice to get started in the rangefinder world almost no one seems to recommend Nikon rangefinders. Is this because of the somewhat higher price (Leica M series are more expensive though), limited availability, etc?

....

Thanks for reading and any comments will be appreciated.

Dare I say, us Nikon users are a little more humble than them Leica users, and we are good secret keepers.
Just Kidding.


On another note, in my humble opinion,
the Millenium Nikkor made for the Nikon S3 2000 is much sharper than the F counterparts 😉

Kiu

 

[rbsinto]

Snegron,
Keep me posted on your adventures making up the body and lens caps. If you run into problems, lemme know and I'll steer you through the steps.
Robert

 

[Jarle Aasland]

Seems like you already have all the info you need, but here's some of my first impressions with the S2 (or any rangefinder, for that matter):

NikonWeb.com: Nikon S2

..and a few photos (S2, Nikkor 50mm f/1.4, Kodak Tri-X):

Jarle

 

[snegron]

I guess it was never meant to be. 🙁

I ordered an S2 with a 50mm 1.4 from KEH last week and it was supposed to be delivered yesterday.

It was never delivered.

I checked with UPS and they advised me that they lost my package!!! The tracking info advised that it made it all the way from KEH to the hub in my city. It then states that it was in the truck. That was the last entry. THE UPS DRIVER LOST MY CAMERA!!!!😡

I contacted KEH today and they were both sympathetic and helpful. Problem is that the S2 in EX condition that I ordered was their last one.

I came so close to owning the S2 of my dreams. What a pitty that we have such irresponsible people on this planet.
Anyway, thanks everyone here for your input. Maybe someday I will own a Nikon rangefinder. I guess it was not my time yet.

 

[css9450]

I was of the understanding UPS drivers are responsible for packages that they mis-deliver (or lose, as your case seems to be). If their tracking is as accurate as they claim it to be, they should be able to point the finger at the driver. I hope you are taking the issue up with someone in authority there.

BTW I always get my packages delivered to my office; that way I know for sure there is someone there to sign for it, unlike at home where they may or may not leave it if no one is home.

 

[snegron]

I was of the understanding UPS drivers are responsible for packages that they mis-deliver (or lose, as your case seems to be). If their tracking is as accurate as they claim it to be, they should be able to point the finger at the driver. I hope you are taking the issue up with someone in authority there.

BTW I always get my packages delivered to my office; that way I know for sure there is someone there to sign for it, unlike at home where they may or may not leave it if no one is home.

The interesting thing here is that the package still shows "out for delivery"! If the driver would have left it at my residence he would have scanned it as "delivered" and the tracking would have shown that. I believe that if he mistakingly delivered to the wrong address he would have scanned it as "delivered" as well and it would have shown the time it was delivered.

The package was supposed to arrive yesterday. When I got home at about 4:30 p.m. I noticed that the package was not there. I waited until about 6:00p.m and called UPS. A customer service person informed me that they usually stop delivering at about 7:00 p.m. but if the driver has a large load he can still deliver up until 11:59 p.m.

I waited in my living room up until about 12:30 a.m. and I checked the tracking online every half hour or so. There was no change. It still showed as on the road for delivery. At about 3:00 a.m (I got about two hours of sleep) I checked again. No package.

I tried to file a claim for lost package online but a message came up telling me that I had to wait 24 hours after the last transaction was entered in order to file a claim; in other words I had to wait until 6:00 a.m. today to file a lost package claim.

At 6:30 a.m. (sleeping pills didn't work) I tried makiing the claim online but it gave me the same message indicating I would have to wait until tommorow to file a claim! I called UPS and spoke with a customer service rep. He put me on hold for a few minutes then came back and informed me that the package was indeed lost! He transfered me over to a person in the claims department. She told me that I couldn't make a claim because I was not the sender!

I told her I needed some type of report and she said she could initiate a trace for me if I wanted but suggested that I needed to go through the seller. I told her that I wanted my package and that I had waited long enough!!! She took my info and stated that she had initiated a trace.

At about 10:30 or 11:00 a.m. (all seems fuzzy now only having slept about three hours) today I called KEH and spoke with their customer service. They said they would help me out and would either reship a similar outfit or refund my money after they placed a claim with UPS. I was told to call back on Monday to see where the case stands.

I really, really hope my package is not lost and that it gets delivered to me this weekend. I had my hopes on getting that S2. 🙁

 

[Cale Arthur]

One possible theory, in hopes of putting your mind at ease: during times of high volume, packages will appear as 'out for delivery' when in fact they've gone back to the hub when the driver's shift is over. Or, in some cases, the driver will pass off some packages to another driver who's load is a bit lighter, but even then the package can still go back.. It's happened to me on numerous occasions, and only in December. In fact, with one package in particular, it went back twice! It's doubtful that you'd p.o. a driver so bad that something malicious would occur, but you might want to consider making nice and having a conversation w/him about it.

One other thing: i've found that UPS phone reps usually can't find their a** with both hands - they're worlds away from your package and generally only have access to the same info that you're seeing. I've had them tell me things that turned out to be patently untrue (as in, 'your package is lost', when it wasn't). Believe me, i feel your pain, but these things do work out more often than they don't. Get some rest.. chances are still good that it'll show up, but probably not tonight.

--c--