formal
***
Dublin Protest
Dublin Protest
M6; 24mm; T-Max 400 @ 800
David
Dublin Protest
M6; 24mm; T-Max 400 @ 800
David
raid
Dad Photographer
jbf
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John Neal: Nice composition. Lovely capture of the lighting. I might try to pull a little more detail back out of the highlights, and try to keep the shadows/midtones where they are, but overall I think it's a great study on natural light.
Monz: I love your portraits. This is no exception. The composition and timing of this shot is beautifully done. The expression and gesture of the boy as he looks intently into the camera lens as he plays the harmonica is breathtaking. The tonality and depth of field of the image make it and eye grabber instantly. I love how 'high key' this shot it. It makes the boy stand out so much. Yet at the same time your eye moves from the boy to the two children in the background also playing musical instruments. It makes for a very powerful image.
This is an image I would have loved to have hanging on my wall.
The only thing I might have tried was to see if i could pull the highlights down just a tad on the figures in the background. But at the same time this may not be something that you want to do as it may draw your attention away from the boy more. In any case this is a beautifully capture and intimate capture of these three children. Wonderful shot!
EmilGill: Very nice framing and capture. The thing about your capture is that since the only foreign language I can somewhat understand is Spanish, so the sign on the wall definately captures my attention. I can't help but want to know what it means. So in this case it definately captures my attention. The figure is a nice added touch as well, but I keep feeling like I want to see something more about the figure or how the person relates more toward the background. Regardless, it's an interesting and well composed shot.
Formal: A stunning street portrait. The central girl instantly captures my attention. I find it incredibly arresting how all other figures are all looking in the direction of (presumably) the receiver of their protest. The young woman's gaze is full of emotion. I feel the power and strength from within and her acknowledgement of you (the photographer) makes this image all the more powerful. A beautifully captured and presented portrait. Another shot I would love to have on my wall.
Raid: When I saw this image i couldnt help but feel a little bit humored. For some reason the young ladies sunglasses and hairstyle remind me of the greek beauties from the 50s and 60s. Why, I am not sure. Perhaps it is the mix of the tonality as well as the sunglasses but something strikes me as quite retro about the photo.
I keep wanting to see her eyes though. I feel like the sunglasses (while they do give a great reflection and tonality in them) I really feel like her eyes would make it more powerful. In any case a very nice portrait.
All in all some beautifully done photos here guys. Some really well seen and captured photos.
Well done!
Monz: I love your portraits. This is no exception. The composition and timing of this shot is beautifully done. The expression and gesture of the boy as he looks intently into the camera lens as he plays the harmonica is breathtaking. The tonality and depth of field of the image make it and eye grabber instantly. I love how 'high key' this shot it. It makes the boy stand out so much. Yet at the same time your eye moves from the boy to the two children in the background also playing musical instruments. It makes for a very powerful image.
This is an image I would have loved to have hanging on my wall.
The only thing I might have tried was to see if i could pull the highlights down just a tad on the figures in the background. But at the same time this may not be something that you want to do as it may draw your attention away from the boy more. In any case this is a beautifully capture and intimate capture of these three children. Wonderful shot!
EmilGill: Very nice framing and capture. The thing about your capture is that since the only foreign language I can somewhat understand is Spanish, so the sign on the wall definately captures my attention. I can't help but want to know what it means. So in this case it definately captures my attention. The figure is a nice added touch as well, but I keep feeling like I want to see something more about the figure or how the person relates more toward the background. Regardless, it's an interesting and well composed shot.
Formal: A stunning street portrait. The central girl instantly captures my attention. I find it incredibly arresting how all other figures are all looking in the direction of (presumably) the receiver of their protest. The young woman's gaze is full of emotion. I feel the power and strength from within and her acknowledgement of you (the photographer) makes this image all the more powerful. A beautifully captured and presented portrait. Another shot I would love to have on my wall.
Raid: When I saw this image i couldnt help but feel a little bit humored. For some reason the young ladies sunglasses and hairstyle remind me of the greek beauties from the 50s and 60s. Why, I am not sure. Perhaps it is the mix of the tonality as well as the sunglasses but something strikes me as quite retro about the photo.
I keep wanting to see her eyes though. I feel like the sunglasses (while they do give a great reflection and tonality in them) I really feel like her eyes would make it more powerful. In any case a very nice portrait.
All in all some beautifully done photos here guys. Some really well seen and captured photos.
Well done!
raid
Dad Photographer
John: It is not easy to strike just the right balance between overexposing the view outside the building and underexposing the indoor part of the image. You managed to do a good job in this aspect. The positioning of the entrance slightly off center is good. There is a gradiation of dark grea to brilliant white. I like the shot.
Monz: The image is superb. I love the expressions on the faces of each of the three children. The boy, being the center figure, looks great with his lips over the harminica and the contrast between the white and the black part in his eyes and the sunshine hitting his hair and the clothes he is wearing make it all surreal. The girl in the back is absorbed with playing some sort ofkeyboard while the other girl has her eyes close, being taken into a world of musical harmony. I love it.
Emil: I love what appears to be the reflection of the person in the glass. The composition is execllent,letting the person walkinto the scene. This is an excellent capture.
Formal: This is a powerful street photo. The young woman in the front looks at you,and her stare makes this image. Wonderful.
Monz: The image is superb. I love the expressions on the faces of each of the three children. The boy, being the center figure, looks great with his lips over the harminica and the contrast between the white and the black part in his eyes and the sunshine hitting his hair and the clothes he is wearing make it all surreal. The girl in the back is absorbed with playing some sort ofkeyboard while the other girl has her eyes close, being taken into a world of musical harmony. I love it.
Emil: I love what appears to be the reflection of the person in the glass. The composition is execllent,letting the person walkinto the scene. This is an excellent capture.
Formal: This is a powerful street photo. The young woman in the front looks at you,and her stare makes this image. Wonderful.
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
Monz - I like the simplicity of the shot, and the use of the rule of thirds works very well. There is a good range of tones for a high-key shot, and the slight bokeh between the boy and the children in the background works very well. Exposure is good, and it would have been easy to lose detail in the boy's face, given the backlighting, but you have held that well. I would just like a little more punch in the contrast, but that could be my (work) monitor, or the fact that I like contrast. I do think this shot needs a good border, and you have got the depth of that just about perfectly.
The boy's eyes are what really makes the shot for me - it looks almost as though he has been discovered doing something he should not (obviously not the case, but it is a great capture.
EmilGil - a shot after my own heart. I have a thing about doorways, windows & urban shabby chic. Timing is good, with the guy about to walk past the door - will he go in, or go past? Just enough blur in his foot to show movement, even if he looks completely detached from his surroundings. Good range of tones, but (again it may be my monitor) I don't see a max black anywhere, but I do like the glimpse of the interior of the bar through the door - good offset from centre too. I did just wonder where the point of focus was though - seems to be the taverna sign, but it is all just a little soft (shutter speed, perhaps?)
Best thing for me in the shot are the reflections in the windos - we can see a different world to the one we inhabit, complete with the doppelganger of the guy on the street.
Formal - a great reportage shot, classic structure and with a great focal length for the subject type. Exposure is great - full range of tones and some smack in the face blacks! Interesting composition with all eyes in one direction, except for one pair that have engaged with the observer - very spooky. Difficult shot to crop, and the only minus point for me are the half-faces at either edge of the shot, I might have tried it without them to increase the impact, but that is a small point.
Again, the eyes make the shot - overall it makes me want to know more about what is going one. More please.
Raid - I have to say that I don't think this is up to your normal standard (sorry!). It is a fairly plain record shot of somebody in front of a crowd, possibly at a street market. The range of tones is slightly compressed (monitor again?), and the point of focus seems to be the strap over the girl's shoulder, not her glasses or face. To be honest, I would have asked her to take the glasses off (assuming you know her), this would give us the essential eyes. having said that, the composition is bang on with the main subject just right and good bokeh with the crowd behind.
Please don't take offence, but I know you have produced much better work than this (pictures of your daughter with the Summar, for example).
Sorry if I'm coming across as critical - but I'm trying to be honest
The boy's eyes are what really makes the shot for me - it looks almost as though he has been discovered doing something he should not (obviously not the case, but it is a great capture.
EmilGil - a shot after my own heart. I have a thing about doorways, windows & urban shabby chic. Timing is good, with the guy about to walk past the door - will he go in, or go past? Just enough blur in his foot to show movement, even if he looks completely detached from his surroundings. Good range of tones, but (again it may be my monitor) I don't see a max black anywhere, but I do like the glimpse of the interior of the bar through the door - good offset from centre too. I did just wonder where the point of focus was though - seems to be the taverna sign, but it is all just a little soft (shutter speed, perhaps?)
Best thing for me in the shot are the reflections in the windos - we can see a different world to the one we inhabit, complete with the doppelganger of the guy on the street.
Formal - a great reportage shot, classic structure and with a great focal length for the subject type. Exposure is great - full range of tones and some smack in the face blacks! Interesting composition with all eyes in one direction, except for one pair that have engaged with the observer - very spooky. Difficult shot to crop, and the only minus point for me are the half-faces at either edge of the shot, I might have tried it without them to increase the impact, but that is a small point.
Again, the eyes make the shot - overall it makes me want to know more about what is going one. More please.
Raid - I have to say that I don't think this is up to your normal standard (sorry!). It is a fairly plain record shot of somebody in front of a crowd, possibly at a street market. The range of tones is slightly compressed (monitor again?), and the point of focus seems to be the strap over the girl's shoulder, not her glasses or face. To be honest, I would have asked her to take the glasses off (assuming you know her), this would give us the essential eyes. having said that, the composition is bang on with the main subject just right and good bokeh with the crowd behind.
Please don't take offence, but I know you have produced much better work than this (pictures of your daughter with the Summar, for example).
Sorry if I'm coming across as critical - but I'm trying to be honest
formal
***
John
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I'm not a big fan of this type of picture, but it has a good composition that leads the viewer's eye through the image to the tree or bush outside the window.
No the negative side, the wires at the top look out of place and on my monitor highlights are blown out. I also think it is a pity that the whitewash of the walls is continued onto the floor, thus blurring the distinction between the walls and ground.
Monz
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This is a very good environmental portrait. I like the expression on the boy's face and the poses of the two girls. The shallow DOF also works well in separating the girls from the boy.
I don't like the frame; for me it is two thick. Also the plug on the wall is a bit distracting.
EmilGil
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A good street shot. I like the detail in the building and the man's reflection in the window.
However, I don't think that the man is sufficiently isolated from the background. His head merges with the flowers and his coat & bag merge with the dark rectangle.
raid
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A good portrait. I like the way the second woman is walking into the frame and the fact that both are wearing glasses. The shallow depth of field also works very well.
The black object in the lower left hand corner is unfortunate and I think I would have preferred the main subject to have been wearing dark sunglasses.
David
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I'm not a big fan of this type of picture, but it has a good composition that leads the viewer's eye through the image to the tree or bush outside the window.
No the negative side, the wires at the top look out of place and on my monitor highlights are blown out. I also think it is a pity that the whitewash of the walls is continued onto the floor, thus blurring the distinction between the walls and ground.
Monz
----
This is a very good environmental portrait. I like the expression on the boy's face and the poses of the two girls. The shallow DOF also works well in separating the girls from the boy.
I don't like the frame; for me it is two thick. Also the plug on the wall is a bit distracting.
EmilGil
-------
A good street shot. I like the detail in the building and the man's reflection in the window.
However, I don't think that the man is sufficiently isolated from the background. His head merges with the flowers and his coat & bag merge with the dark rectangle.
raid
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A good portrait. I like the way the second woman is walking into the frame and the fact that both are wearing glasses. The shallow depth of field also works very well.
The black object in the lower left hand corner is unfortunate and I think I would have preferred the main subject to have been wearing dark sunglasses.
David
Monz
Monz
John
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I like the textures of the walls and floor and the way the arch forms a frame within a frame. Also, there is a good range of tones (apart from the blown-out area in the distance).
However, my eyes are looking for a focus of attention; maybe something on the shelf on the left or a person standing in the archway may have added to the composition?
EmilGil
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Nice street shot, again with a great range of tones. I like the inclusion of the man and his reflection in the window.
There is motion blur in the man's feet - perhaps it would have been better either to freeze him totally with a higher shutter speed or increase the blurring further to really give a sense of motion.
David/Dublin Protest
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Splendid photograph David. I spent a lot of time looking at it. Technically it is very good in terms of composition and tonal range. I like the fact that only the lady in white has noticed you - her eye contact makes the photo for me. I also like the fact that you have included the big banner with writing which adds context.
I can't really find anything negative to say; maybe position the lady at the front slightly further to the right or have a little more area to the left (thereby making the composition fit the law of thirds better).
Raid
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I recently saw a newly-serviced Contax IIIA and 50mm Sonnar 1.5 at a camera fair and passed on it. After seeing your picture, I wished I had bought the kit! It is a nice street portrait. I like the "bokeh", the reflection in the sunglasses and that "old fashioned" look which is difficult to put into words.
I am not sure if the lady with the drink on the left helps or detracts from the composition. If she was any sharper, I would find her distracting.
All in all, a nice collection of photographs. Thanks all for sharing and commenting.
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Monz
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I like the textures of the walls and floor and the way the arch forms a frame within a frame. Also, there is a good range of tones (apart from the blown-out area in the distance).
However, my eyes are looking for a focus of attention; maybe something on the shelf on the left or a person standing in the archway may have added to the composition?
EmilGil
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Nice street shot, again with a great range of tones. I like the inclusion of the man and his reflection in the window.
There is motion blur in the man's feet - perhaps it would have been better either to freeze him totally with a higher shutter speed or increase the blurring further to really give a sense of motion.
David/Dublin Protest
------------------------
Splendid photograph David. I spent a lot of time looking at it. Technically it is very good in terms of composition and tonal range. I like the fact that only the lady in white has noticed you - her eye contact makes the photo for me. I also like the fact that you have included the big banner with writing which adds context.
I can't really find anything negative to say; maybe position the lady at the front slightly further to the right or have a little more area to the left (thereby making the composition fit the law of thirds better).
Raid
-----
I recently saw a newly-serviced Contax IIIA and 50mm Sonnar 1.5 at a camera fair and passed on it. After seeing your picture, I wished I had bought the kit! It is a nice street portrait. I like the "bokeh", the reflection in the sunglasses and that "old fashioned" look which is difficult to put into words.
I am not sure if the lady with the drink on the left helps or detracts from the composition. If she was any sharper, I would find her distracting.
All in all, a nice collection of photographs. Thanks all for sharing and commenting.
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Monz
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raid
Dad Photographer
edited: I removed my early rejoinder. Thanks Monz.
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Monz
Monz
raid said:
Hi Raid,
I think we're still waiting for EmilGil's comments..... hopefully on Wednesday.
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Monz
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raid
Dad Photographer
bump ....
I hope that we keep the momentum going here. Such delays can kill a thread or interest in it.
I hope that we keep the momentum going here. Such delays can kill a thread or interest in it.
EmilGil
Well-known
Terribly sorry Raid, I'll get to it when I get home from work in an hour or so.
My flight back home was delayed this morning and I've had my fair share of things to do at the office today.
My flight back home was delayed this morning and I've had my fair share of things to do at the office today.
raid
Dad Photographer
No problem, Emil. When travel is necessary, hobbies have to wait!EmilGil said:
mgilvey
RF Newby, Photog Oldy
May I be a guest and make some comments?
EmilGil
Well-known
Alright, so I'm home and have had my coffee, I am now ready to give my comments. I apologize if I repeat something either of you has said before as I haven't read your comments yet (in order not to colour my own impression of your pictures).
John, I like the composition but I can't help to wonder what was most important; the arch doorway or the plant on the outside. The metering and darkroom work is terrific, you have captured the structure in the plaster and stone very well and you've created a nice depth in your image by placing that plant in the opening. I would have wanted a slight burning of the lightest areas of the print to avoid blowing the highlights completely.
Monz: A great family picture; the girl in the back concentrated on her piano, the other girl with her guitar (both nicely out of focus) and the young boy with a glint in his eye, ready to let it loose on his harmonica. The three kids are nicely spaced and the girls give a nice backdrop to the boy. The light metering is very well done, such a bright motive is seldom easy. My only suggestion would be to lower the camera about a foot or so to get more in level with the kids, to avoid the adult (bird) perspective and lose the curtain on the right. Your shot reminds me that I have to try Fuji Acros some day!
David: Nice documentary shot. They seem a bit overcome and unmotivated, as commanded out in the street to protest against something they don't agree with. The happy eyes of the young girl in the middle lifts the picture, that's where my eyes lands after looking at your image. Nice composition and darkroom work. Apart from the 1/4 of a police officer's face in the left upper corner, I think you've done very well in this shot. Maybe a small burning of the sky in the top middle could help focus the viewer on the young girl even more.
Raid, your shot is the most difficult to comment. It's obviously taken at some street fair or similar with a lot of things going on around you and your wife but she's clearly the most important part of your photo. I don't know about the reflections in her sunglasses, it disturbs me somehow that I don't see all of what I expect to see there. I think either more or less reflections would have worked better. What's that little black thing coming in from the lower left corner? I suspect it's your daughter but just seeing a little of her hair is a bit annoying.
Thank you all for you comments, I appreciate them. Now it's time for our guests to cast their votes before we continue our discussion and explain our own pictures. Once again, sorry for my delay in posting my comments.
John, I like the composition but I can't help to wonder what was most important; the arch doorway or the plant on the outside. The metering and darkroom work is terrific, you have captured the structure in the plaster and stone very well and you've created a nice depth in your image by placing that plant in the opening. I would have wanted a slight burning of the lightest areas of the print to avoid blowing the highlights completely.
Monz: A great family picture; the girl in the back concentrated on her piano, the other girl with her guitar (both nicely out of focus) and the young boy with a glint in his eye, ready to let it loose on his harmonica. The three kids are nicely spaced and the girls give a nice backdrop to the boy. The light metering is very well done, such a bright motive is seldom easy. My only suggestion would be to lower the camera about a foot or so to get more in level with the kids, to avoid the adult (bird) perspective and lose the curtain on the right. Your shot reminds me that I have to try Fuji Acros some day!
David: Nice documentary shot. They seem a bit overcome and unmotivated, as commanded out in the street to protest against something they don't agree with. The happy eyes of the young girl in the middle lifts the picture, that's where my eyes lands after looking at your image. Nice composition and darkroom work. Apart from the 1/4 of a police officer's face in the left upper corner, I think you've done very well in this shot. Maybe a small burning of the sky in the top middle could help focus the viewer on the young girl even more.
Raid, your shot is the most difficult to comment. It's obviously taken at some street fair or similar with a lot of things going on around you and your wife but she's clearly the most important part of your photo. I don't know about the reflections in her sunglasses, it disturbs me somehow that I don't see all of what I expect to see there. I think either more or less reflections would have worked better. What's that little black thing coming in from the lower left corner? I suspect it's your daughter but just seeing a little of her hair is a bit annoying.
Thank you all for you comments, I appreciate them. Now it's time for our guests to cast their votes before we continue our discussion and explain our own pictures. Once again, sorry for my delay in posting my comments.
Monz
Monz
mgilvey said:
Hello mgilvey and welcome. Please feel free to make comments
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Monz
mgilvey
RF Newby, Photog Oldy
Great, I'll divulge my words of wisdom when I get home from work tonight. Mind you I don't have much wisdom and it may be hard to find the words ;-)
mgilvey
RF Newby, Photog Oldy
There has been plenty of discussion about the images presented here. What people like and what they would change. I would like to attempt to take it one step further (I hope). I am going to critique two images that stood out to me because they seem to be speaking the words "What if? Here is where I would like us to discuss what if it was this or what if that so that you can have an enhanced awareness to ask the same or similar questions the next time you put the camera up to your eye.
Ask yourself, what do you do when you compose an image? What are you thinking about? Shape, texture, light and light quality? Design, balance and relationships? How about previsulization? Of course and that is what I want to focus on with the following two image critiques.
The first image belongs to John Neal. Before I start, I should also let it be known that I'm a photo retoucher and I have no bones about moving or removing things that just don't work in a design. Yes, I removed the wiring that was over the doorway. If that is too big of a crime then just tell yourself that I painstakingly went back to this very location, patched the wiring because the owner got sick of looking at it and then went to the trouble to wait for the right light and framed it exactly the same. I understand the need to photograph some things as true as possible and that is all right and fine with me but if I'm looking for something that I want to present as art, I'm not going to wait for the Gods to put every single little element in the right spot and I'm certainly not going to wait for them to tell the wind to blow to remove a piece of trash from the composition. I hope I'm not alienating anyone but I know there are those who would wait for the wind to blow the trash out of the way instead of removing it themselves.
Ok, enough of my rant, lets look at some photos. I've read through everyone's post and the consensus on this image seems to be that some can't tell what the subject is but the textures and lighting are great. I don't know what John's level of experience is so I'm to present some ideas as I would do them. Now in hind-sight what would you have done? What were you thinking when you took the photo? If you printed it in a darkroom, what were you thinking when you printed it, what were you trying to emphasize?
Looking at this image, I would say that you were engulfed by the soft light and the white on white effect it has on the painted wall and likely so! But how to draw the viewers eye to it? Well, you've placed the tree in the background off to the side a bit which certainly helps draw the eye in as mentioned in a previous post but now what, do I look at; the tree or the soft lit area inside? Was this your dilemma? What I'm trying to do here is to get you to think about what you've printed vs what you could have done so that when (not if) these arguments resurface the next time a similar scenario comes up so you can work out several ideas before clicking the shutter. That's not to say you didn't do that when you took this one but since everyone seems to have a few similar thoughts, perhaps we can present those suggestions implemented so you can see how it might look and thus explore the possibilities.
Lets look at this first version I present. Going with the idea that perhaps the tree is competing for attention against the white walls I've brightened up the outside so that the tree is no longer a subject stealer. The eye will always be attracted to the brightest thing in the image first but in this case, note how the archway becomes the subject. How does this help you for when you were looking through the camera? Was this what you were after in the first place? Or were you after the white walls in next space. If this is what you might have wanted, you could have chosen to opened up the lens even further thereby increasing the sense of white on white but having a single subject becasue most of the tree would be blown out.
Ok, lets look at another version. This one goes the opposite direction. In this scenario the viewer goes through the corridor and outside to the tree but now the tree is a bit more attractive. We have the nice white on white inside and some nice shading that emphasized the textures and it all leads you right to the tree which now has detail restored to it and the ground.
To take this shot, you would have had to expose more for the outdoor illumination.
The idea here is to get you to previsualize these two scenarios while you are at the scene. You could take is a step further like one of the previous posters suggested and have a person in the doorway...how long would you be willing to wait for that opportunity? Many times it is impossible to wait that long but it should be something you think about. Add to it, the possibility of that person being in one of the two scenarios I've presented here.
I think perhaps what you actually got was a cross between two ideas in one photo. Or I could be completely wrong about this in which case, these two images would serve as other ideas you may not have thought of when you were there.
One down, one to go! But it may have to wait until tomorrow night. Right now I have to go study more bloody CSS for work ;-)
P.S. John, if you would like to have the layered Photoshop CS2 file I used to make these, just let me know.
Ask yourself, what do you do when you compose an image? What are you thinking about? Shape, texture, light and light quality? Design, balance and relationships? How about previsulization? Of course and that is what I want to focus on with the following two image critiques.
The first image belongs to John Neal. Before I start, I should also let it be known that I'm a photo retoucher and I have no bones about moving or removing things that just don't work in a design. Yes, I removed the wiring that was over the doorway. If that is too big of a crime then just tell yourself that I painstakingly went back to this very location, patched the wiring because the owner got sick of looking at it and then went to the trouble to wait for the right light and framed it exactly the same. I understand the need to photograph some things as true as possible and that is all right and fine with me but if I'm looking for something that I want to present as art, I'm not going to wait for the Gods to put every single little element in the right spot and I'm certainly not going to wait for them to tell the wind to blow to remove a piece of trash from the composition. I hope I'm not alienating anyone but I know there are those who would wait for the wind to blow the trash out of the way instead of removing it themselves.
Ok, enough of my rant, lets look at some photos. I've read through everyone's post and the consensus on this image seems to be that some can't tell what the subject is but the textures and lighting are great. I don't know what John's level of experience is so I'm to present some ideas as I would do them. Now in hind-sight what would you have done? What were you thinking when you took the photo? If you printed it in a darkroom, what were you thinking when you printed it, what were you trying to emphasize?
Looking at this image, I would say that you were engulfed by the soft light and the white on white effect it has on the painted wall and likely so! But how to draw the viewers eye to it? Well, you've placed the tree in the background off to the side a bit which certainly helps draw the eye in as mentioned in a previous post but now what, do I look at; the tree or the soft lit area inside? Was this your dilemma? What I'm trying to do here is to get you to think about what you've printed vs what you could have done so that when (not if) these arguments resurface the next time a similar scenario comes up so you can work out several ideas before clicking the shutter. That's not to say you didn't do that when you took this one but since everyone seems to have a few similar thoughts, perhaps we can present those suggestions implemented so you can see how it might look and thus explore the possibilities.
Lets look at this first version I present. Going with the idea that perhaps the tree is competing for attention against the white walls I've brightened up the outside so that the tree is no longer a subject stealer. The eye will always be attracted to the brightest thing in the image first but in this case, note how the archway becomes the subject. How does this help you for when you were looking through the camera? Was this what you were after in the first place? Or were you after the white walls in next space. If this is what you might have wanted, you could have chosen to opened up the lens even further thereby increasing the sense of white on white but having a single subject becasue most of the tree would be blown out.
Ok, lets look at another version. This one goes the opposite direction. In this scenario the viewer goes through the corridor and outside to the tree but now the tree is a bit more attractive. We have the nice white on white inside and some nice shading that emphasized the textures and it all leads you right to the tree which now has detail restored to it and the ground.
To take this shot, you would have had to expose more for the outdoor illumination.
The idea here is to get you to previsualize these two scenarios while you are at the scene. You could take is a step further like one of the previous posters suggested and have a person in the doorway...how long would you be willing to wait for that opportunity? Many times it is impossible to wait that long but it should be something you think about. Add to it, the possibility of that person being in one of the two scenarios I've presented here.
I think perhaps what you actually got was a cross between two ideas in one photo. Or I could be completely wrong about this in which case, these two images would serve as other ideas you may not have thought of when you were there.
One down, one to go! But it may have to wait until tomorrow night. Right now I have to go study more bloody CSS for work ;-)
P.S. John, if you would like to have the layered Photoshop CS2 file I used to make these, just let me know.
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raid
Dad Photographer
This is good stuff. I am awaiting your second photo review for tomorrow.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
mgilvey,
Boy, you sure saw my dilemma when it came to presenting this image!
[edit: to answer your question - I have been taking B&W pics since 1959, so I'm fairly proficient technically, but that does not prevent me from landing in the horns of a dilemma quite often when it comes to both pre-visualisation and final print presentation]
When I took the shot, I was after the white on white "glow", as per your first reworking above. However, when I saw that on my monitor, I didn't like my result (probably due to lack of expertise in PS) as it was not as pure as you present it. I accept that I probably should have done something to remove those wires, as they are a distraction - my route would probably have been a crop, due to limited digital skills.
I have actually prepared another version of the shot to share with the guys here. It more closely reflects your second version, in that i have pulled the highlights down to bring out the tree in the background. Unfortunately, I don't think it is a clear as yours, I'm getting some artefacts in the shadows in the lower left corner that I don't find attractive. I think this is the version that I would have produced in the traditional wet darkroom - probably by split-grade printing and pre-flashing the paper to control the contrast range. I will post my attempt later, from home.
Having said all of that - and having seen your improvement on my efforts - I still have a bit of a dilemma about which I actually prefer. I can see merits in both, and an appeal in both (albeit for different reasons). There is an awful lot of detail in the neg, and I have always shied away from not reproducing what is there, as it is. Maybe this is holding me back as an art photographer? From your excellent work above, I'm warming toward the first one as art.
I think I need to produce physical prints and look at them in the flesh (as it were), and live with them for a while to finally decide. It would be very interesting, and instructional, to be able to have the layered PS files - thanks for your kind offer. I will PM you to arrange how I can get them.
To the other guys here who commented - many thanks, I really struggled to select an image to post here. I have a whole series taken at the same time as the one shown. All were taken about 18 months ago in Tenerife, but did not get processed until a couple of weeks ago due to the film hiding in the back of a drawer!
The location is a mountain village that is partly abandoned. This is the church, which is one of the few remaining buildings in one piece. It has this cloister around 3 sides, with a wonderful wooden roof (I have lots of shots of that). The lights was full sun, and the whitewashed walls were causing plenty of bounce, hence the very high contrast. I had only taken Delta 400 with me (fool!) and could not get anything else in B&W on the island.
I had wondered about producing a small monograph on this village, but I think the rest of the film could use mgilveys skills to make that a reality
Thanks for the input - I have been greatly encouraged, and learnt some important lessons. I will be back for a future critique!
Boy, you sure saw my dilemma when it came to presenting this image!
[edit: to answer your question - I have been taking B&W pics since 1959, so I'm fairly proficient technically, but that does not prevent me from landing in the horns of a dilemma quite often when it comes to both pre-visualisation and final print presentation]
When I took the shot, I was after the white on white "glow", as per your first reworking above. However, when I saw that on my monitor, I didn't like my result (probably due to lack of expertise in PS) as it was not as pure as you present it. I accept that I probably should have done something to remove those wires, as they are a distraction - my route would probably have been a crop, due to limited digital skills.
I have actually prepared another version of the shot to share with the guys here. It more closely reflects your second version, in that i have pulled the highlights down to bring out the tree in the background. Unfortunately, I don't think it is a clear as yours, I'm getting some artefacts in the shadows in the lower left corner that I don't find attractive. I think this is the version that I would have produced in the traditional wet darkroom - probably by split-grade printing and pre-flashing the paper to control the contrast range. I will post my attempt later, from home.
Having said all of that - and having seen your improvement on my efforts - I still have a bit of a dilemma about which I actually prefer. I can see merits in both, and an appeal in both (albeit for different reasons). There is an awful lot of detail in the neg, and I have always shied away from not reproducing what is there, as it is. Maybe this is holding me back as an art photographer? From your excellent work above, I'm warming toward the first one as art.
I think I need to produce physical prints and look at them in the flesh (as it were), and live with them for a while to finally decide. It would be very interesting, and instructional, to be able to have the layered PS files - thanks for your kind offer. I will PM you to arrange how I can get them.
To the other guys here who commented - many thanks, I really struggled to select an image to post here. I have a whole series taken at the same time as the one shown. All were taken about 18 months ago in Tenerife, but did not get processed until a couple of weeks ago due to the film hiding in the back of a drawer!
The location is a mountain village that is partly abandoned. This is the church, which is one of the few remaining buildings in one piece. It has this cloister around 3 sides, with a wonderful wooden roof (I have lots of shots of that). The lights was full sun, and the whitewashed walls were causing plenty of bounce, hence the very high contrast. I had only taken Delta 400 with me (fool!) and could not get anything else in B&W on the island.
I had wondered about producing a small monograph on this village, but I think the rest of the film could use mgilveys skills to make that a reality
Thanks for the input - I have been greatly encouraged, and learnt some important lessons. I will be back for a future critique!
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
OK, here is the revisited version of this shot that I created last night.
I don't have the PS skills to make the sort of improvements that mgilvey managed, so I cropped the wires - probably changes the feel of the shot somewhat, and it doesn't glow in the same way. So, shoot me down some more
I don't have the PS skills to make the sort of improvements that mgilvey managed, so I cropped the wires - probably changes the feel of the shot somewhat, and it doesn't glow in the same way. So, shoot me down some more
