Adox APH09 (Similar to Rodinal) Grain Control

[jfserejo]

I was browsing some scans and take a fresh look at some shots made in this summer in a really hot day in Lisbon, that appear now, after some time, more interesting that after I scanned them some months ago - FP4 in Adox APH09 seamed alive, with a strong acutance that for some type of subjects seams to turn out really fine. But the shots are grainy for a 125 ASA film... How are you controlling the grain with Rodinal (similar to APH09)?

My dev. setting was: FP4 @ EI100 developed in Adox APH09 dil. 1+40 (similar to Rodinal 1+50) for 9m45s at 24ªC (75).

samples:

100% crop

Best regards all.
Joao

 

[FPjohn]

Hello:

Fine image. Grain is characteristically revealed by Rodinol especially at the merest hint of overexposure and/or over development. Perhaps a slight up rating of FP4 to 125 or 150 or a reduction in development time would reduce apparent grain. A few trial exposure rolls at different development times would be instructive.

yours
Frank

 

[jfserejo]

Hi Frank,
I will try it. Maybe the same 9m45s but this time at 21ºC (69.8F) for starting point. (those days where so hot that was difficult to bring chemicals temp. down)

Best regards,
Joao

 

[Bryce]

My 'normal' film/ developer combo is FP4 and Rodinal.
I haven't had good luck exposing FP4 faster than ISO 64 or 80; there just isn't any shadow detail left to work with. Maybe with a different developer but not Rodinal.
A possible exception to this would be for negs that will never be printed directly. Scanning allows more contrast at the negative than would be printable.
When I want a little less grain I add a little Sodium Ascorbate (2 g/L) and Borax (1/2 g/L) to the mix as per Patrick Gainer's suggestion here. It works! Lookie here-
http://www.unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html

 

[Bryce]

OOH- another pointer. Keep your developer temperature below 70˚ for best results. For some reason letting the temp get over that seems to make Rodinal go hog wild on the grain.

 

[jfserejo]

Hi Bryce,
I don't have any experience with this developer and this was one of my first attempts to try something different than HC-110, the developer I start, not to long ago, doing my own film developing.

The results I have seen with Rodinal, posted by so many, when dealing with contrast subjects, big black areas with portions strongly lit, result often in wonderful photography (maybe in a NON zone system kind, but artistically strong and beautiful).

I learned the zone system and now I'm trying to do, what most people say, is the fallowing step: Forget it! And changing the developer, from HC-110 to something like Rodinal, is a step I believe will help.


Ed Buffaloe web page is great! I will read carefully, and keep posting here, to see if I can learn about Rodinal.

Thanks so much. Sincerely,
Joao

 

[jfserejo]

Bryce the SilverMine Photo in your gallery illustrates perfectible the kind of works i was talking! Sgestion of form by light and great mood environments - this is one of the things that often is seen in Rodinal developed film. Lovely shot.

Best regards,
Joao

 

[Trius]

(over)-Agitation is the enemy of grain, especially with Rodinal. Higher dilutions also work better for me.

I use 1:100/20C. Tri-X & APX100 go for 20 minutes.

30 seconds initial agitation, 3 gentle inversions every three minutes thereafter.

FWIW, I don't think the grain in the shots you posted is bad at all. FP4+, despite its speed rating, is not known as especially fine-grain as a medium speed film. If you really need finer grain, try Delta 100 or T-Max 100.

Why are you trying to "forget" the Zone system? With roll film it is not as flexible as with sheet film, I agree. But knowing the fundamentals is very useful. It's also a good excuse to have three RF bodies loaded with the same b&w film; one for normal development, one for N-1, one for N+1. GAS must be supported! 😀

 

[jfserejo]

Trius when I said "forget" was in a sense of stop thinking about it to much while shooting. The things learned will allways be there, and will be an essencial knoledge, but not to be held technically when shoting, or we loose the main photography subject - the image of that moment. This was my idea of "forget it" 😉

Be careful with the gas! We are in january and I think that for me these year is done! No more budget... 🙄

So far I've got : Over (Exposure/Development); Real Film Speed; Some Extra Chemicals (for me almost impossible to get - mos EU won't export raw chemicals); Temperature not to exceed 70F (21ºC); Higher Dilutions; Gentle Agitation.

Not bad to start some tests...

Best regards,
Joao