6x9 that not break the bank

[slungu]

Hello everybody,

Since this is my first post here, I will try to introduce myself first. I am a mainly digital shooter with a Canon 1Ds and some nice manual focus lenses around for those times when I have to shoot fast. I also had a Mamiya RB67 and a Sinar F1, but while I liked the big negatives and slides, I found them cumbersome and since they were not seeing too much use, they have gone. I also have an old 6x4.5 rangefinder :

Mow, while this is a great piece of equipment, with a coupled rangefinder ( that I will have to clean a little bit ), I am still looking for a big negative rangefinder that would not break the bank ( so no 600EUR Bessa II and other such strange things that you see in the bay ). Any recomandations for a general purpose, lightweight, reliable RF with decent optics ?

Regards, Stefan

 

[kully]

Moskva 5? I have one - good stuff when stopped down.

Coupled rangefinder too.

 

[terrafirmanada]

I have also been looking for one of those, but I will probably wait a couple months.

 

[Krosya]

If you can find it - Welta is very good, coupled RF with a good lens.
Like this one:

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

GOOD Iskras are getting scarce.....but if you can find one....exellent, and pocketable!

Dave




Sorry! - just remembered we're talking 6x9!

 

[Brince]

I'd look for a Zeiss Nettar 6X9 with Novar lens. It's a good solid basic camera. CLA'd their around 100 dollars.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

I'd look for a Zeiss Nettar 6X9 with Novar lens. It's a good solid basic camera. CLA'd their around 100 dollars.

Agreed.....although it's not a r/f........100 dollars?.....mmm, - there's one in my drawer doing nothing, that I'd take half that for!

Cheers, Dave.

 

[Brince]

Ooops..... I missed the R/F part. I may have paid too much for mine but it's condition is as close to mint in a 60 year folder as I've ever seen no paint lost are any other imperfections. I couldn't pass it up.....also an excellent perfomer.

 

[Abbazz]

There are so many 6x9 cameras! If you are looking for good usable cameras selling for an affordable price, here are some suggestions:

- Zeiss "Mess" Ikonta 524/2: nice folder with uncoupled rangefinder. Usually much cheaper than the super Ikonta, lighter and better too. Most affordable with 3 element Novar lens;
- Voigtländer Bessa RF: the best looking Bessa with a coupled rangefinder. As the model equipped with a Heliar (5 elements) lens can be rather expensive, better go for the Skopar (4 elements), or even Helomar (3 elements) lens if budget is tight;
- Mamiya Press/Universal: a great system selling for cheap, more versatile than a folder but heavy and cumbersome to use;
- The cheapest really usable 6x9? Moskva 2, 4 or 5, as suggested by Kully. As film flatness is not guaranteed (just like a Super Ikonta 531/2), it's F/8 at least.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[Solinar]

6x9, cheap, small and a decent RF are not descriptions that I usually put in the same sentence.

My preference in the folder category is those I can repair myself. Almost all my folders, with exception of the Agfa Super Isolette were bought on forums from sellers willing to state what needed to be repaired. My favorite in this category are the Agfa Records, but at this time, I do have a Voigtlander Bessa II waiting for bellows from Camera Bellows in the UK.

With that said, my BIG FUJI 6x9 RF is the pride and joy of the fleet. It is soooooo much more modern in use. A modern winder and a big viewfinder with parallax corrected frame lines are come by in an old folder. It's also as large as your Canon DSLR and not inexpensive.

 

[furcafe]

Per my post in this thread:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=723675&postcount=15

You may want to consider a Kodak Medalist I or II. Not cheap if you want them converted to 120, but not too expensive, either. Like almost all the vintage 6x9 cameras, they will have the film flatness issue mentioned by Abbazz if you're looking for the most critically sharp results (though that can be mitigated by only shooting right after you've advanced the film).

 

[Keith]

I have a Moskva 5 but will probably sell it soon I think ... it's a bit too fiddly and I enjoy the luxury of a modern MF rangefinder much more. I think my Bronica spoiled me in this regard and if I was really drawn to the 6x9 format I would probably consider a Fuji.

When you're talking inexpensive though I guess the Moskva's a logical choice ... I think I paid around seventy dollars from Grizzly Bear for mine.

 

[shadowfox]

If you are patient, you can get a Bessa RF with Heliar (about the best out there) for not too much. Mine was a fraction of silly Bessa II prices, and just as good result-wise.

Fuji GW690 is awesome optically, but BIG, very BIG.

 

[foto_fool]

Sorry I have no love for the old folders, but the FujiGW690 is a wonderful camera. You can pick up a GW690II for less than the price of a new ZM 50 Sonnar. Even so, as of this moment, today, that would break the bank.

 

[Abbazz]

Uhm..? You are aware that you could buy, perhaps, a couple of Bessa IIs if you sold your Roland? In case you don't know, that's a very rare and sought-after collectible. Built by Dr Paul Rudolph's own company, the man who designed the Tessar lens (and by the way, also the Plasmat on the Roland).

I'm surprised no one mentioned it - it's also one heck of a pretty camera.

Yes, I forgot to congratulate Stefan on his gorgeous Roland camera. I am quite sure it wouldn't be a wise move to sell such a rare item in order to finance the acquisition of a 6x9 camera.

Stefan, if you are on a budget, why not considering a Fujica G690 (the old model with interchangeable lens)? I forgot to mention it in my previous post, while it is my favorite 6x9 camera. A bargain condition G690BL equipped with the 100/3.5 lens will cost you $465 from Keh, but you can find an usable G690 for less than $300 if you are willing to accept small defects. The most common defect is a non working darkslide, wich will prevent you from changing lenses when the camera is loaded, but will not impact the ability of the camera to take pictures. If you are handy at repairing cameras, you can repair the darkslide yourself, or you can have it done at a reasonable cost when your finances will allow.

The G690 is a "modern" camera, which means that it is much more usable than a vintage folder -- just slip a small lightmeter in the flash shoe and shoot away. It is also more robust and it takes superb pictures. The big drawback is the bulk.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[aizan]

i'll just throw this out there: fuji ga645.

 

[slungu]

Yes, I forgot to congratulate Stefan on his gorgeous Roland camera. I am quite sure it wouldn't be a wise move to sell such a rare item in order to finance the acquisition of a 6x9 camera.

The G690 is a "modern" camera, which means that it is much more usable than a vintage folder -- just slip a small lightmeter in the flash shoe and shoot away. It is also more robust and it takes superb pictures. The big drawback is the bulk.

Cheers!

Abbazz

Hi Abbazz,

Yes, I know the Roland is a rare camera with a greate lens for it's time, but as it also is a memory of my grandfather I don't even dream of selling it - I only want to keep it working without doing too much harm to it.
My problem right now is that I am looking for a smallest package that delivers 6x9. As I said, the RB67 makes some nice pictures, has interchangable lenses, rotating back and so on, but I found it is too heavy to lug around and shoot handheld. So the task is to find a handholdable 6x9, and here I came to the folders, if possible with rangefinder since I am not good at guesstimating. Already some cameras to do some research on...

Regards, Stefan

 

[Way]

If you want a 6x9 camera that isn't so big, easy to carry and not too expensive, then you probably have to go with a folder. Coupled rangefinder with good optics will probably run you about $400 from Jugen Kreckel http://www.certo6.com/index.html. A great site dedicated to folders, very informative. You can also see my post about buying a 6x9 folder: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51596.

 

[Abbazz]

Yes, I know the Roland is a rare camera with a greate lens for it's time, but as it also is a memory of my grandfather I don't even dream of selling it - I only want to keep it working without doing too much harm to it.

Wise decision.

My problem right now is that I am looking for a smallest package that delivers 6x9. As I said, the RB67 makes some nice pictures, has interchangable lenses, rotating back and so on, but I found it is too heavy to lug around and shoot handheld. So the task is to find a handholdable 6x9, and here I came to the folders, if possible with rangefinder since I am not good at guesstimating. Already some cameras to do some research on...

Here is a list of the 6x9 folders equipped with a rangefinder (either coupled=CRF or not=URF) that I have tried: Voigländer Bessa RF (CRF) and Bessa II (CRF), Zeiss Mess Ikonta 524/2 (URF), Super-Ikonta 521/2 or 531/2 (CRF) & their Russian copies the Moskva 2, 4 & 5 (CRF), Welta Weltur (CRF), Franka Solida IIIe (URF), Agfa Record III (URF), Houghton Ensign Autorange 820 (CRF), Houghton Ensign Selfix 820 Special (URF), Kodak Regent (CRF), Demaria-Lapierre Telka III (CRF), Royer Teleroy (CRF) and Drépy GT (URF).

Among all these cameras, I would definitely recommend a Bessa RF. You should be able to find a good one for $150-300, depending on the lens. The Bessa RF is the best bang for the buck if you need a built-in rangefinder. The Bessa II is not very different from the RF but it's 2 or 3 times more expensive. Frankly, I prefer the RF over the II: it's lighter and I find it prettier. The Zeiss Super-Ikonta may be great for a collector -- it looks superb in the showcase -- but it's way too expensive.

Image quality wise, I find the cameras equipped with unit focusing lenses better than those equipped with front focusing lenses (Super-Ikonta, Moskva, Agfa Record, Ensign Selfix), especially at close up range. A well adjusted Bessa equipped with either the Heliar or Skopar lens is capable of delivering better results than any other folder.

One caveat: for folders, always try before you buy, or make sure you are offered a comprehensive return policy. Even if a folder seems to be a rather primitive camera which should be quite sturdy, there are lots of things that can go wrong with these cameras, especially when they are shipped half way around the world. Many good looking folders will never produce a correct picture, either because of film planeity problems, lack of parallelism between lens and film, an unadjusted rangefinder, or a badly reassembled lens following an attempted repair. Even "reputable sellers" of eBay fame do not test their cameras with film before selling them, so you can never be 100% sure to get a folder capable of optimal results.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[oldgearhead]

If you can get by with 6x7, be a man and get the Koni. You can save money on
kettle-bells, and it's handle is more comfortable...
...