BNF
Established
I've been thinking of getting an LTM camera for a while now. I'd like one that is fairly easy to use, yet still a clear reminder of days gone by.
I've never used anything older than an M3. So, I have no clue about film loading or handling these early cameras. (IE Do I still use a modern film cartridge?)
I don't know how far back I can go to remain practical. I have no problem carrying a handheld light meter, and I already am among the world's slowest photographers.... but I want to still be able to have fun and use the camera.
After those requirements, I'm ultimately after that "old timey" look to my prints
What models do you suggest to fit my requirements? Are there any caveats, warnings or things I need to specially inspect when buying from a reputable dealer?
TIA
Ciao
I've never used anything older than an M3. So, I have no clue about film loading or handling these early cameras. (IE Do I still use a modern film cartridge?)
I don't know how far back I can go to remain practical. I have no problem carrying a handheld light meter, and I already am among the world's slowest photographers.... but I want to still be able to have fun and use the camera.
After those requirements, I'm ultimately after that "old timey" look to my prints
What models do you suggest to fit my requirements? Are there any caveats, warnings or things I need to specially inspect when buying from a reputable dealer?
TIA
Ciao
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
I really like the Canon P - LTM, normal side opening back, standard cartridges. Built well.
Of course, you can always use older LTM lenses on any M body too - you just need adapters. The Old timey look (in the images) is a function of uncoated, lower contrast lenses, rather than the camera itself.
Of course, you can always use older LTM lenses on any M body too - you just need adapters. The Old timey look (in the images) is a function of uncoated, lower contrast lenses, rather than the camera itself.
furcafe
Veteran
Per the previous posts, as far as equipment is concerned, it's the lens that has the greatest influence on your efforts to achieve an "old timey" look, but don't forget the film & paper, too.
As far as the old LTM bodies, almost all of them will accept "modern" film canisters, though w/the classic "Barnack"-type models, as opposed the more modern back-loading Canon RFs like the P mentioned above (w/the exception of the fairly pricey later Niccas w/their M3-style flip-up door), it is highly recommended that you trim the leader when loading.
As far as the old LTM bodies, almost all of them will accept "modern" film canisters, though w/the classic "Barnack"-type models, as opposed the more modern back-loading Canon RFs like the P mentioned above (w/the exception of the fairly pricey later Niccas w/their M3-style flip-up door), it is highly recommended that you trim the leader when loading.
Shac
Well-known
Leica IIIc's are common & reasonable, and with a 3.5 Elmar and a Voigtlander 50 finder should gibve you classic "old-time" looking images
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Well I don't know about the original Barnacks, but on the IIIc modern preloaded film cassettes can creep downward causing sprocket holes to appear at the bottom of the frame.
With regards to Canons, the VI is a bit larger and heavier than Canon's earlier screw mounts, the III and IV. The VI does have those multiple frame lines - which means no separate finders for the 35mm and 90mm focal length, - 100mm in the Canon VI's case - .
With regards to Canons, the VI is a bit larger and heavier than Canon's earlier screw mounts, the III and IV. The VI does have those multiple frame lines - which means no separate finders for the 35mm and 90mm focal length, - 100mm in the Canon VI's case - .
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Way off topic - Have you considered a Leica CL or Minolta CLE? Either would compliment the M3.
SteveM(PA)
Poser
Compared to the M's the tiny barnacks are a quite different flow, owing to the separation of focus and framing. Viewing your scene, you bring the barnack to your right eye (ideally) and you'll be amazed at how little it intrudes on your view, it's still very much your scene, with a 1.5x focus patch floating there in your right eye, out of the way. Only after you've achieved your focus, you just roll your cheek to the right slightly to the framing window, and bam.
Steve Litt
Well-known
50mm F2 Summar is great for classic old timey looks.
Regards
Steve
Regards
Steve
Vics
Veteran
Why not just adapt LTM lenses to your M3? That's what I plan to do.
Vic
Vic
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Well you can have your cake and eat it too. I'm also after old-timey look *and* using cool old gears 
Leica IIIc is great and after using one, it's easy to use. Trust me, if I can use it ... anyone can.
I think the key is getting it CLA'd especially when getting it from the bay or other sources where the sellers are usually clueless as to the actual condition of the camera.
Loading the film is not as hairy as it cracked up to be. A scissor is all you need.
Leica IIIc is great and after using one, it's easy to use. Trust me, if I can use it ... anyone can.
I think the key is getting it CLA'd especially when getting it from the bay or other sources where the sellers are usually clueless as to the actual condition of the camera.
Loading the film is not as hairy as it cracked up to be. A scissor is all you need.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Leica IIIa or a postwar Leica IIIC with a f2.0 Summar 50mm and you have everything that`s "old timey" in one package - you learn to load by doing some TEST LOADS with a scrap roll of film and trimming is second nature once you have done it a few times.....
Try to find a recently CLA`d camera too, that`s important for performance and keeping costs down
And you can more than likely find all that fun on evilbay for less than $350!
Or do what others have suggested, buy a screw to M adapter and a Summar and shoot that on your M3 - same difference
Tom
Try to find a recently CLA`d camera too, that`s important for performance and keeping costs down
And you can more than likely find all that fun on evilbay for less than $350!
Or do what others have suggested, buy a screw to M adapter and a Summar and shoot that on your M3 - same difference
Tom
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BNF
Established
Thanks for the help and advice, guys.
I no longer have said M3 (rather M6ttl).
I am after the "old timey" look and experience while remaining comfortable. The IIIxx seems like a good option for me. I'd look at the Canon idea as well, but my relationship with Leica dealers is far stronger, so I have more luck here. (Though a dealer in Austria has a strong Zeiss selection albeit pricey.)
When you are slow and deliberate like I tend to be when shooting, having a slow(er) camera is not such a bad thing!
I no longer have said M3 (rather M6ttl).
I am after the "old timey" look and experience while remaining comfortable. The IIIxx seems like a good option for me. I'd look at the Canon idea as well, but my relationship with Leica dealers is far stronger, so I have more luck here. (Though a dealer in Austria has a strong Zeiss selection albeit pricey.)
When you are slow and deliberate like I tend to be when shooting, having a slow(er) camera is not such a bad thing!
Luddite Frank
Well-known
I've played around with cameras for about 30 years now, mostly RF ,a few SLR's...
I 've only recently entered the realm of Leica.
My first Leica was a III-f from Ritz Collectibles; decent cosmetics, but could use a CLA and needs new curtains. Since then, I've acquired an chrome III (1934) with ugly chrome, but is turning-out to be a decent user, and a couple of black-paint III's and a D ( II ).
I've accumulated a variety of LTM lenses, including:
35mm Canon f 1.8; Leitz 35mm f 3.5;
50mm Leitz f 2 Summars, f 3.5 Elmar (nickel, uncoated), f 2 Summicron
90mm Leitz f 4 Elmars ( one black/uncoated, one chrome/coated)
135 Leitz f 4 Elmar (black), 2 Hektors ( 1 black, 1 chrome), 1 f 3.5 Rokkor (Minolta).
They took a little getting used-to, but are fun to use.
Aside from the general rule to either buy a CLA'd camera from a reputable dealer, or plan on having yours CLA'd / new curtains, the IIIc and later cameras have a stronger, die-cast body frame. The pre-c cameras have a body that is built-up from sheet brass, and can distort under the weight of a long lens...
And, some guys talk about carry their Barnack in a trousers pocket - sounds a like a good way to accidentally squash your Leica....
Goodd luck finding and shooting - you 'll have fun !
Luddite Frank
I 've only recently entered the realm of Leica.
My first Leica was a III-f from Ritz Collectibles; decent cosmetics, but could use a CLA and needs new curtains. Since then, I've acquired an chrome III (1934) with ugly chrome, but is turning-out to be a decent user, and a couple of black-paint III's and a D ( II ).
I've accumulated a variety of LTM lenses, including:
35mm Canon f 1.8; Leitz 35mm f 3.5;
50mm Leitz f 2 Summars, f 3.5 Elmar (nickel, uncoated), f 2 Summicron
90mm Leitz f 4 Elmars ( one black/uncoated, one chrome/coated)
135 Leitz f 4 Elmar (black), 2 Hektors ( 1 black, 1 chrome), 1 f 3.5 Rokkor (Minolta).
They took a little getting used-to, but are fun to use.
Aside from the general rule to either buy a CLA'd camera from a reputable dealer, or plan on having yours CLA'd / new curtains, the IIIc and later cameras have a stronger, die-cast body frame. The pre-c cameras have a body that is built-up from sheet brass, and can distort under the weight of a long lens...
And, some guys talk about carry their Barnack in a trousers pocket - sounds a like a good way to accidentally squash your Leica....
Goodd luck finding and shooting - you 'll have fun !
Luddite Frank
BillP
Rangefinder General
I've now had my IIIc for a little over a year; it has been liberating for me to do something completely different, even from my previous experience with M6's and (current) M7. I can only equate the experience to going back to playing acoustic guitar after years of electric. I had to *think* more, work harder, work within the limitations of the lower top shutter speeds, the slower lenses, the separate view/rangefinder, the different handling.
You can see my results - follow the links in my signature. I "see" differently with a rangefinder than how I do with an SLR. I see differently again with my IIIc than I do with my M7. There are, IMO, three elements to the "experience" - the choice of film - I have settled on Kodak 400CN - the choice of body, for the "feeling", and the choice of lens for the "look". I enhance the final look with PS, by means of tritoning.
My choice? IIIc with 5cm 3.5 Elmar. Small enough to carry in a pocket, even wearing a Luigi half-case (I have large hands), the only additions are an OKARO viewfinder filter to aid focussing, and a Gordy wriststrap.
Regards,
Bill
You can see my results - follow the links in my signature. I "see" differently with a rangefinder than how I do with an SLR. I see differently again with my IIIc than I do with my M7. There are, IMO, three elements to the "experience" - the choice of film - I have settled on Kodak 400CN - the choice of body, for the "feeling", and the choice of lens for the "look". I enhance the final look with PS, by means of tritoning.
My choice? IIIc with 5cm 3.5 Elmar. Small enough to carry in a pocket, even wearing a Luigi half-case (I have large hands), the only additions are an OKARO viewfinder filter to aid focussing, and a Gordy wriststrap.
Regards,
Bill
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projectbluebird
Film Abuser
You probably want to look for a IIIf then, the VF and RF windows are very close making focusing and composing very easy. The only difference between the IIIf and the IIIc is the lack of flash sync, and the more separated VF/RF on the latter. From what I hear, the IIIg is the easiest leica LTM to use, but the most uncomfortable on the pocketbook!BNF said:
I also wanted the experience of using an (even) older camera, and picked up a IIIf. To my surprise, it's in even better shape than my M3! (not mint, but very very clean) It's been very fun to use, and I wish you luck on your LTM journey.
burninfilm
Well-known
Luddite Frank said:
Hell, the III and II series Leicas are incredibly tough cameras. You'd have a hard time "squashing" any of them, as the bodies are dense and have incredible structural integrity. I tend to keep mine in the back left pocket of my jeans, and it has yet to be crushed by my 170lbs. body. Other people's experiences may vary, however.
Do what others have said... find a IIIa or IIIc (or any LTM body you can find in functional condition for under $300) and stick a fast, uncoated lens on the front. A Summar would work nicely, and isn't very expensive. Even an uncoated Elmar would work pretty well.
If slow and deliberate is your passion, than a Barnack inspired Leica is your tool.
harry01562
Registered semi-lurker
For real "old time" camera fun, I agree with Leica Tom... look for a IIIa with a clean Summar lens. The camera is rugged for its age. One in nice shape, with modern lubricants, will last you for years. A clean Summar is a premium lens, as so many of them are scratched front/back/both. Also check for haze with the flashlight test. A good internal cleaning will remove that, usually.
If you get a nice combo, it will take you back to the mid '30's, which was the heyday of this combo. The lens isn't bad for color (the Summitar is better), but it really shines in B&W.
Since you already seem experienced with the M3, no sense not going for the earlier look and feel.
Harry
If you get a nice combo, it will take you back to the mid '30's, which was the heyday of this combo. The lens isn't bad for color (the Summitar is better), but it really shines in B&W.
Since you already seem experienced with the M3, no sense not going for the earlier look and feel.
Harry
John Shriver
Well-known
The IIIa is definitely the lightest of the bottom-loader Barnacks. It's the last affordable one built up of bits of bent sheet metal. (The IIIb was the last built-up one, but rare and collectible.) Starting with the IIIc there's a main body casting that makes them more stable, but heavier. Before the IIIa you lose 1/1000 shutter speed, which can be very important with 400 speed film and a lens that only stops down to f/12.5.
The IIIa is also generally the cheapest Barnack.
The other approach is the Canon II, III, or IV series. Much more comfortable to use due to the single-window viewfinder, and it has variable magnification for accurate focusing when needed. They are heavier than the Leicas, but still have the "small in the hand" feel. Again, you would want to pick one that has a 1/1000 top shutter speed.
Even though I have a Canon IIF and IV-SB2, I prefer the Leica IIIa as a travel camera for weight reasons. Also, if I get robbed, the Leica body and lenses are probably easier to replace...
As for lenses, all the Leica 50mm LTM lenses have plenty of character. Elmar, Hektor, Summar, Summitar, or Summicron. An Elmar is really essential to the LTM experience in my opinion. I'd say a Summitar would be the most flexible choice in a second 50mm LTM lens.
The IIIa is also generally the cheapest Barnack.
The other approach is the Canon II, III, or IV series. Much more comfortable to use due to the single-window viewfinder, and it has variable magnification for accurate focusing when needed. They are heavier than the Leicas, but still have the "small in the hand" feel. Again, you would want to pick one that has a 1/1000 top shutter speed.
Even though I have a Canon IIF and IV-SB2, I prefer the Leica IIIa as a travel camera for weight reasons. Also, if I get robbed, the Leica body and lenses are probably easier to replace...
As for lenses, all the Leica 50mm LTM lenses have plenty of character. Elmar, Hektor, Summar, Summitar, or Summicron. An Elmar is really essential to the LTM experience in my opinion. I'd say a Summitar would be the most flexible choice in a second 50mm LTM lens.
ErnestoJL
Well-known
If you want to go back to the basics, then go to a Leica II, no slow speeds, and true "Barnack" as nothing else can be.
If You don´t want to pay an arm and a leg, just get a Zorki 1 with a decent & coated I22. Later you can get an uncoated Elmar 3.5. All this for little more than pennies.
Cheers
Ernesto
If You don´t want to pay an arm and a leg, just get a Zorki 1 with a decent & coated I22. Later you can get an uncoated Elmar 3.5. All this for little more than pennies.
Cheers
Ernesto
uwe zankl
Member
Hi
I have a Leica IIIa as a user and I have no reason to complain. It's a lovely camera and a true 1930s design, and as already mentioned quite cheap. I paid 115$ for my IIIa body and it's in perfect working order. If you like black...than get a II or III but they are more expensive most of the times.
A positiv side effect of pre war cameras is...they will never loose value any more, the olde they get the more they will cost. An investment as well as a lot of fun.
cheers
Uwe
I have a Leica IIIa as a user and I have no reason to complain. It's a lovely camera and a true 1930s design, and as already mentioned quite cheap. I paid 115$ for my IIIa body and it's in perfect working order. If you like black...than get a II or III but they are more expensive most of the times.
A positiv side effect of pre war cameras is...they will never loose value any more, the olde they get the more they will cost. An investment as well as a lot of fun.
cheers
Uwe