FallisPhoto
Veteran
bob cole said:
Some x-ray film can be loaded using a special green safelight, only for a few seconds. I don't think they have made a film that can be loaded with a red light in decades. I guess they dropped that even before they dropped the other good films (Kodachrome 25, APX 25, Maco 25, and etcetera -- Efke is still hanging in there, but I expect that to go any day).
Okay, I just checked and Panotomic-X 32 is still being made, but only as an aerial film these days. Is that anything like the same thing?
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bob cole
Well-known
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------FallisPhoto said:
I used Panotomic-X for bullfights in Mexico over 50 years ago because that's what I was able to find... I don't remember if faster film was available back then...The Panotomic-X also happened to be fine-grain...
I guess it's still used as aerial film now because the fine grain brings up details on the ground very clearly... I believe that the National Security Agency, which uses aerial film for surveillance, uses Hasselblads so it has a larger negative to work with...
Vics
Veteran
I used those Patterson tanks and reels for decades, then bought some stainless steel reels and tanks at a garage sale, and I've never looked back! I've since bought Hewes reels for the 35mm film, but I find 120 a joy to load in a changing bag. A real BIG changing bag. Try it! You'll LOVE it!
Vic
Vic
dnp
Member
I've recently gotten a lot better at loading the steel reels, but it always struck me that this area was ripe for invention. Honestly, how hard could it be to design a reel that had sprocket teeth on it and just winds ones film in without all the fumbling? It's a right of passage, but a real time waster for me. Good luck in your efforts - you'll get it! Practice with some old film (a lot). 
FallisPhoto
Veteran
dnp said:I've recently gotten a lot better at loading the steel reels, but it always struck me that this area was ripe for invention. Honestly, how hard could it be to design a reel that had sprocket teeth on it and just winds ones film in without all the fumbling? It's a right of passage, but a real time waster for me. Good luck in your efforts - you'll get it! Practice with some old film (a lot).
Personally, I think the plastic reels are way easier for loading 35mm film (because they do grab those sprocket holes), are fair to load with 127 (they are pretty much the only game in town there) but can be sheer hell to load some of the flimsier 120 films into (especially Efke R25 -- the king of flimsey films). I've always thought 120 was easier to load into steel reels. Oh, and 120 film has no sprocket holes for your proposed reel with teeth to grab.
Joao
Negativistic forever
Hello
Patterson and Jobo plastic reels pose no problem if they are clean and dry; if I am not sure if the reel is dry enough, I dry it with an hair-dryer, immediately before inserting it in the changing bag. Works fine, even with 120 films (Ilford, Efke and Foma).
Cheers
Joao
Patterson and Jobo plastic reels pose no problem if they are clean and dry; if I am not sure if the reel is dry enough, I dry it with an hair-dryer, immediately before inserting it in the changing bag. Works fine, even with 120 films (Ilford, Efke and Foma).
Cheers
Joao
oscroft
Veteran
Loading 120 is a bit trickier. The usual advice - make sure the spool is very very dry (I use a hair dryer to be certain), use a changing bag, sacrifice a film and practice in the light a few times - is all very sound.
But where I have difficulty is getting it started (once it's started it's easy). What I do is locate it so that it is just entering the spiral, then get hold of the leading edge with one finger on the emulsion side and one on the other side and pull it into the spiral, pulling it about a third of the way round - after that I find it loads fine. I don't get fingerprints on any frames, because there is sufficient blank film before the first/after the last frame - you'd obviously need to be aware of frame spacing with your camera.
I also completely remove the backing paper from the film before loading and toss it in the bottom of my changing bag out of the way - I hate having it flapping in the way while I'm loading.
But where I have difficulty is getting it started (once it's started it's easy). What I do is locate it so that it is just entering the spiral, then get hold of the leading edge with one finger on the emulsion side and one on the other side and pull it into the spiral, pulling it about a third of the way round - after that I find it loads fine. I don't get fingerprints on any frames, because there is sufficient blank film before the first/after the last frame - you'd obviously need to be aware of frame spacing with your camera.
I also completely remove the backing paper from the film before loading and toss it in the bottom of my changing bag out of the way - I hate having it flapping in the way while I'm loading.
moonwire
Member
I find the most essential thing is to cut the corners of the film into a 45 degree angle. I use AP reels and I have never had any difficulty loading 120 film with those.
bmattock
Veteran
Kodak made an alternative to plastic and steel reels back in the 1950's. It worked well, still does, and you can get the originals or good Chinese-made copies for next to nothing.
The system was called "Kodakcraft" and you can google for it - I've explained it all about 10,000 times now. It is an apron (someone mentioned it in this thread) made of clear plastic with serrated edges like ravioli to keep the film from touching the plastic once it is rolled up.
There is no reel. It is just plastic under its own spring tension. You unrolled it in your changing back, match the film against it, and let it roll up again. Nothing to get wrong - it is NOT POSSIBLE to do it wrong.
There are drawbacks. The original Kodakcraft tanks held a maximum of 2 35mm rolls or 1 120 (also available for 127, etc). They were not water-tight, so inversion is not possible - you agitate instead.
The new Chinese-made copes can be inverted - but they only hold one 35mm or one 120.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=6051
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=5629
However, if you can live with no inversion (old tanks) or one roll per tank (new tanks) then this is the easiest way to process B&W film on the face of the planet.
The system was called "Kodakcraft" and you can google for it - I've explained it all about 10,000 times now. It is an apron (someone mentioned it in this thread) made of clear plastic with serrated edges like ravioli to keep the film from touching the plastic once it is rolled up.
There is no reel. It is just plastic under its own spring tension. You unrolled it in your changing back, match the film against it, and let it roll up again. Nothing to get wrong - it is NOT POSSIBLE to do it wrong.
There are drawbacks. The original Kodakcraft tanks held a maximum of 2 35mm rolls or 1 120 (also available for 127, etc). They were not water-tight, so inversion is not possible - you agitate instead.
The new Chinese-made copes can be inverted - but they only hold one 35mm or one 120.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=6051
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=5629
However, if you can live with no inversion (old tanks) or one roll per tank (new tanks) then this is the easiest way to process B&W film on the face of the planet.
srtiwari
Daktari
I had a Hell of a time loading SS reels, and read about the AP Paterson (Compact, not Classic) plastic reels with the wide flanges that you feed the film through. I was about to buy some from the frugalphotographer.com, but found some Rokunar tank and reels of the same type. Very easy to load, even the 120s. I love them !
semrich
Well-known
sooner - Just this week I was in the same situation as you, except I was doing it with a practice roll.
I am using Hewes stainless steel reels for 35mm and love them and I found the 120 reels more difficult because of no sprocket holes. After reading the comments in this thread I did it again in the changing bag and folded the lead edge of the film over about 2mm creased it and also cut the corners a little at a 45 degree angle and it was a breeze to load the film, I've done it about three time since and feel comfortable doing it. Good luck!
I am using Hewes stainless steel reels for 35mm and love them and I found the 120 reels more difficult because of no sprocket holes. After reading the comments in this thread I did it again in the changing bag and folded the lead edge of the film over about 2mm creased it and also cut the corners a little at a 45 degree angle and it was a breeze to load the film, I've done it about three time since and feel comfortable doing it. Good luck!
lshofstra
Established
FallisPhoto,
Ofcourse you are right about ball bearings reducing friction. But in this case ballbearing is a misnomer. It's a ball in a wedgeshaped film which will produce higher friction when pulling the film because the ball moves to the narrow side of the space. Pushing it in releases the pressure the ball puts on the film.
As a general comment: I don't think the balls are very usefull for 120. If they're sticky I pop them out and use my thumbs to prevent the film slipping back. As long as the spools are dry loading is never a problem with Paterson reels.
Ofcourse you are right about ball bearings reducing friction. But in this case ballbearing is a misnomer. It's a ball in a wedgeshaped film which will produce higher friction when pulling the film because the ball moves to the narrow side of the space. Pushing it in releases the pressure the ball puts on the film.
As a general comment: I don't think the balls are very usefull for 120. If they're sticky I pop them out and use my thumbs to prevent the film slipping back. As long as the spools are dry loading is never a problem with Paterson reels.
bsdunek
Old Guy with a Corgi
If I remember correctly, in the mid-50's, here in the US we had Panatomic-X at ASA 25, Verichrome Pan at ASA 32 and Tri-X at ASA 200. Somewhere in the late 1950's Panatomic-X went to ASA 32, while Verhchrome Pan and Tri-X doubled to ASA 64 and ASA40 respectivly. I think Plus-X came out about that time at ASA 125. I used to use a lot of that. At that time even B&W films often had different daylight and tungston ratings. The ones I mention are the daylight speeds, tungston was lower.bob cole said:
As for loading 120 - I use SS reels. The main trick, IMHO, is to be sure to get the film started straight and centered. Then just camber it enough to fit between the reel sides and roll it on - don't pull! As several have said - lots of practice!!!
FallisPhoto
Veteran
lshofstra said:
Those wedges are there to push the bearings down into the sprocket holes in 35mm film, where they lock the film in place until you twist the reel the other way and they release it; then you twist it back and they grab a sprocket hole again and force it further into the reel (try this with a sacrificial roll of 35mm and see). It doesn't work very well with 120 film, because there are no sprocket holes to grab (and thus this entire thread came to be). Personally, I find loading 120 into ss reels to be easier and faster, although the plastic reels work far bettter with 35mm.
And Bmattock, you are right; the aprons are easiest of all, at least with 120, but they are not something you can pop into a store and buy, unless you happen to live in NYC, near Adorama, B&H or wherever Freestyle is.