Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Hey all,
you might have seen some postings by me, stating that I'm a newbie to RF and film- photography with an old, but not bad, FSU Fed-2 camera and - yet- one 50mm lens.
After using this camera since November now and getting more and more into the topic and delightful fun of photography ( I really like Street and portraits, but also other stuff) I am a bit bothered by the dim viewfinder without framelines and the non-present transportlever of my current camera.
Here we come to a certain step that I wish to take in the near future. I really would like to get myself a good RF camera that has this both points (framelines/lever).
So, I could
a) spend some money on a used Bessa R LTM RF and then save more money to hopefully be able to get a Leica M6 body some day
or
b) get a Bessa R2A - which would hurt a bit more on the bank account - and start saving again for maybe M6
or
c) don't buy a Bessa R* and save to get a Leica M6 directly some day and make out with my current FSU camera.
What would you do? Given the fact that I could, right now, spend about 600$ without getting that deeply into conflict with myself for spending hard earned money.
Which possibility will bring most satisfaction, comfort and fun?
For all you out there usind the Fed-2: No, I don't dislike this camera, but somehow there are those points to make it a bit uncomfy for me to use.
you might have seen some postings by me, stating that I'm a newbie to RF and film- photography with an old, but not bad, FSU Fed-2 camera and - yet- one 50mm lens.
After using this camera since November now and getting more and more into the topic and delightful fun of photography ( I really like Street and portraits, but also other stuff) I am a bit bothered by the dim viewfinder without framelines and the non-present transportlever of my current camera.
Here we come to a certain step that I wish to take in the near future. I really would like to get myself a good RF camera that has this both points (framelines/lever).
So, I could
a) spend some money on a used Bessa R LTM RF and then save more money to hopefully be able to get a Leica M6 body some day
or
b) get a Bessa R2A - which would hurt a bit more on the bank account - and start saving again for maybe M6
or
c) don't buy a Bessa R* and save to get a Leica M6 directly some day and make out with my current FSU camera.
What would you do? Given the fact that I could, right now, spend about 600$ without getting that deeply into conflict with myself for spending hard earned money.
Which possibility will bring most satisfaction, comfort and fun?
For all you out there usind the Fed-2: No, I don't dislike this camera, but somehow there are those points to make it a bit uncomfy for me to use.
ferider
Veteran
Get a Leica M2. In particular if you like portraits and low light photography.
Charlie
Established
I went through some "Leica Lust" a few years back after I got back into photography. First I bought a G2 with three lenses (great camera BTW) but the lust was still with me. Eventually I bought the Leica and sold the G system. So my advice is to hold on to your present system and save for the M6, since that's the camera you really want anyway.
Regards,
Charlie
Regards,
Charlie
srtiwari
Daktari
Since you are using a Fed-2 and a 50mm lens, you apparently do not need a meter. For a 50mm lens, I would consider a LTM such as a Canon or Leica, since they are all quite inexpensive, and never "die".
mfogiel
Veteran
Florian1234
Get a good scanner first, and if you don't do it yet, start developing your B&W film. If you have your hand burnt by the saved 600USD, get a Nikon FM2 and a good prime lens. Photography is not only about Leicas or rf cameras. When you will be higher up the ladder financially, you will be able to choose a better rf camera, which might or might not be a Leica. For me, the best rf camera is the Bessa R4A - when I have to use a 28mm lens, or the Zeiss Ikon - when I have to use a 35mm lens, or an 0.85x M7 - when I have to shoot a 50mm lens without getting noticed... It is a bit personal..., but my best lens overall, sits inside my scanner.
Get a good scanner first, and if you don't do it yet, start developing your B&W film. If you have your hand burnt by the saved 600USD, get a Nikon FM2 and a good prime lens. Photography is not only about Leicas or rf cameras. When you will be higher up the ladder financially, you will be able to choose a better rf camera, which might or might not be a Leica. For me, the best rf camera is the Bessa R4A - when I have to use a 28mm lens, or the Zeiss Ikon - when I have to use a 35mm lens, or an 0.85x M7 - when I have to shoot a 50mm lens without getting noticed... It is a bit personal..., but my best lens overall, sits inside my scanner.
WoolenMammoth
Well-known
I have an M3 that Ive been wanting to sell for a long time now. I dont use it for a while, get annoyed, then pick it up and wind it and cant possibly sell it. I go through this cycle several times a year. Ive never had that kind of relationship with any kind of machine before. For your budget, especially if you shoot with a 50, you might consider an M3. I dont know that I can describe what, and perhaps its just me, but there is something about that camera... Additionally, I have a CL and an M4 and an M6 and other 3's, I can always tell the photos Ive taken with the M3. I guess some people hate the thick curved frame lines. For me it has dictated a style for myself, and I cant quite find that relationship with another camera. Something special about an M3. You can easily find one in your budget too.
Before I had an M6 I lusted after one tremendously. Now that I have one I have this total love hate relationship with it. Everything about it is a compromise, the meter is awful until you figure it out and the framelines are really not particularly accurate. I catch more junk in the corners with my M6 than with any other body. And yes, almost like the M3, I can typically tell my M6 shots apart from the rest. Sadly its not an impression of style but more a shortcoming of the finder, and no, there's nothing wrong with my camera nor the operator... Its a wonderful camera but its definitely got design things that annoy me %100 of the times I pick it up (which is daily in the last 18 months or so) and cant say that at all about an M3.
M3's are also affordable. The only real drawback is that Im just slightly hesitant to beat on them not because the finder is particularly fragile, but because they are so difficult to repair if the prism ever becomes unglued. Not so much a criticism but more a statement about anything that old. I do a lot of doc work running near full speed with people and try to avoid doing this so much with a 3 anymore. The wrongly placed door jamb can cause you trouble...
Everyone has their own opinion on this stuff though, dont take the internet too seriously...
Before I had an M6 I lusted after one tremendously. Now that I have one I have this total love hate relationship with it. Everything about it is a compromise, the meter is awful until you figure it out and the framelines are really not particularly accurate. I catch more junk in the corners with my M6 than with any other body. And yes, almost like the M3, I can typically tell my M6 shots apart from the rest. Sadly its not an impression of style but more a shortcoming of the finder, and no, there's nothing wrong with my camera nor the operator... Its a wonderful camera but its definitely got design things that annoy me %100 of the times I pick it up (which is daily in the last 18 months or so) and cant say that at all about an M3.
M3's are also affordable. The only real drawback is that Im just slightly hesitant to beat on them not because the finder is particularly fragile, but because they are so difficult to repair if the prism ever becomes unglued. Not so much a criticism but more a statement about anything that old. I do a lot of doc work running near full speed with people and try to avoid doing this so much with a 3 anymore. The wrongly placed door jamb can cause you trouble...
Everyone has their own opinion on this stuff though, dont take the internet too seriously...
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
If you want a better rangefinder, consider saving up for a Zeiss Ikon. New camera with warranty, as capable as Leica, etc., etc.
ZebGoesZeiss
Established
I have a weak spot for the Bessa R. Some find it rather flimsy and plastic, but it's stellar value. Get one and pair it with a 50mm Nokton or 35mm Ultron, and you're set. The Bessa R is the only camera I regret having sold.
icebear
Veteran
Hi Florian,
if you really want an M6 because of the built in meter then save a little more (with $600 you're half way there already). Until you really get your hand on one use it and judge if it's right for you , you'll never be happy with something else. I'm not sure about the price level of used M6 in Germany but in the US decent one are about $1000 - 1100. So maybe with the strong Euro you shop around a little...
if you really want an M6 because of the built in meter then save a little more (with $600 you're half way there already). Until you really get your hand on one use it and judge if it's right for you , you'll never be happy with something else. I'm not sure about the price level of used M6 in Germany but in the US decent one are about $1000 - 1100. So maybe with the strong Euro you shop around a little...
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
I think an M6 with Leica glass is something that you should shoot for but until that time why not pick up a Canonet QL17 or a Yashica GSN or any of the other models to experiment with until you have made up your mind. Those cameras are rugged and their glass is excellent. They appear periodically and good prices. You would not loose much because they are desired. Their viewfinders are better and they are easier to use. And, if the day ever comes that you drop a bundle on one of the top rated cameras & glass they would make a good backup for the bar hopping nights or times when you might not want to carry an expensive item.
R
Roberto
Guest
ZebGoesZeiss said:
I have one, and I use it with real pleasure.. it (she?) never let me down, the attached picture has been shoot at -20 Celsius with a Jupiter 8.
thomasw_
Well-known
I agree with ROLAND if you are fine with a hand held meter or sunny 16; the M2 is a versatile, all round body for the 25/28/35/50/90 focal lengths w/o using an external VF. With the 25/28, just simple use the entire VF to compose. You should be able to get a good user M2 for around 600 to 700 bucks. Get it CLA'd and you will ready to get snap happy
As regards the suggestion to start developing your own B+W film: do it, it rocks! It is quite simple to learn and gives you much more creative control: do this regardless of whether you will scan or wet print. You will find it adds another huge dimension to your photography.
As regards the suggestion to buy an expensive scanner: ONLY do this if you are planning to print from your scans; that is, do more than post your scans to the web. Otherwise it does NOT make sense when wet printing is way better.
As regards the suggestion to start developing your own B+W film: do it, it rocks! It is quite simple to learn and gives you much more creative control: do this regardless of whether you will scan or wet print. You will find it adds another huge dimension to your photography.
As regards the suggestion to buy an expensive scanner: ONLY do this if you are planning to print from your scans; that is, do more than post your scans to the web. Otherwise it does NOT make sense when wet printing is way better.
jmcd
Well-known
From your original post, it seems like you are content without an inboard meter, and you are content with your current lens quality. With your Fed, you have confirmed that you enjoy rangefinder photography.
Of course, if your heart or head says it is going to be a Leica for you eventually, then save and get that as your next camera.
Otherwise, consider a Canon P. It takes Leica screw mount, the viewfinder is big and bright, especially compared to a Fed-2. Frame lines are readily visible. The camera is a pleasure to use, and seems very well made.
If you bought a Canon P in nice shape you could use it for a long time. If you decided to sell it, you could probably get most or all of your money back.
Just a thought.
Of course, if your heart or head says it is going to be a Leica for you eventually, then save and get that as your next camera.
Otherwise, consider a Canon P. It takes Leica screw mount, the viewfinder is big and bright, especially compared to a Fed-2. Frame lines are readily visible. The camera is a pleasure to use, and seems very well made.
If you bought a Canon P in nice shape you could use it for a long time. If you decided to sell it, you could probably get most or all of your money back.
Just a thought.
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Thank you all for the contribution to this thread.
I think I will see how the situation will look like in ten days or so when I'll get my next salary and then go hunting for a M6 with 0.85mm VF.
The onboard meter would just be for comfort, since I have a small hand-held meter anyway (thanks Pitxu).
The suggested Canon P isn't well known overhere in Germany, so that would be quite hard to find.
What makes me think over the Bessa cameras is their metal shutter and that they need batteries to work. They surely seem to be very cool and light cameras, but maybe won't suit me. Actually, as well said before by one of you, my heart says Leica M.
As for the M3 or M2 - they now are about 50 years old and my fear is that the prism would seperate and I would put have to put in more cash than it cost me to get the camera to repair it. At least it would cause trouble. And that's what I want to avoid, since it is enough trouble to be not a quicker deciding person and think over things to buy etc. several times.
I am therefore lucky that you don't flame me for opening a thread like this. And it surely wasn't intended to start a Bessa or Leica basic discussion.
I think I will see how the situation will look like in ten days or so when I'll get my next salary and then go hunting for a M6 with 0.85mm VF.
The onboard meter would just be for comfort, since I have a small hand-held meter anyway (thanks Pitxu).
The suggested Canon P isn't well known overhere in Germany, so that would be quite hard to find.
What makes me think over the Bessa cameras is their metal shutter and that they need batteries to work. They surely seem to be very cool and light cameras, but maybe won't suit me. Actually, as well said before by one of you, my heart says Leica M.
As for the M3 or M2 - they now are about 50 years old and my fear is that the prism would seperate and I would put have to put in more cash than it cost me to get the camera to repair it. At least it would cause trouble. And that's what I want to avoid, since it is enough trouble to be not a quicker deciding person and think over things to buy etc. several times.
I am therefore lucky that you don't flame me for opening a thread like this.
And it surely wasn't intended to start a Bessa or Leica basic discussion.advance
Newbie
Hey 1234,
I waited 20 years to get my leica, as we surfers say, you don't know until you go. Well, i went the whole way and got an MP, it does "something" to you and your pics, go for it I say, and ignore any nonsense that involves comparing ANY other rangefinder to a leica. You only live once so why cop out early
Keep working the rest will come.
Best regards,
Advance
I waited 20 years to get my leica, as we surfers say, you don't know until you go. Well, i went the whole way and got an MP, it does "something" to you and your pics, go for it I say, and ignore any nonsense that involves comparing ANY other rangefinder to a leica. You only live once so why cop out early
Keep working the rest will come.
Best regards,
Advance
BillBingham2
Registered User
Let me take a different approach all together. What about a CV 25/4 lens with finder and stay with your Fed-2 as she is working well, for now. The Fed-2 is a wonderful camera, not fast to handle but thing one frame per shot. If you want a built in meter look for a Bessa L. Very low cost and light weight.
There are few cameras that feel as good in your hand as a Leica M so I am hard pressed to say do not get one. I loved my Ms and it was hard to sell them. If you take the approach of getting the glass first, you can adapt it easily to any M you get later. For me, the 25 on a simple body was the ultimate street system.
B2 (;->
There are few cameras that feel as good in your hand as a Leica M so I am hard pressed to say do not get one. I loved my Ms and it was hard to sell them. If you take the approach of getting the glass first, you can adapt it easily to any M you get later. For me, the 25 on a simple body was the ultimate street system.
B2 (;->
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
If you've got your heart set on a Leica, save up and get it. It will probably cost you less in the long run than buying a series of less expensive cameras.
If you're going to buy an M6, think about the shutter speed dial on the "classic" vs. TTL. If you were to get a second Leica, would it be an M7/8 or something older? It would drive me nuts to switch back and forth between the opposite shutter speed dials.
If you're going to buy an M6, think about the shutter speed dial on the "classic" vs. TTL. If you were to get a second Leica, would it be an M7/8 or something older? It would drive me nuts to switch back and forth between the opposite shutter speed dials.
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Thanks again for the comments, guys.
So, I'm lurking around ebay for some days, already lost two or three deals....
M4 or M4-P, black, body only, anyone (reasonable price fitting my limited budget)?
So, I'm lurking around ebay for some days, already lost two or three deals....
M4 or M4-P, black, body only, anyone (reasonable price fitting my limited budget)?