Relatively cheap(but still good) medium-format RFs?

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minoltist7

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If I will decide to try MF, what cameras to look for (that will not cost me arm and leg) ?

Old FSU cameras (Iskra, Moskva) maybe, but they are hard to find in good operable condition nowadays
 
And how much does an arm/leg go for these days

And how much does an arm/leg go for these days

Also... what are your format requirements. MF comes 6X4.5, 6X6, 6X7 and 6X9. If you want a folder go to the site for "Medium format in your pocket", and from there go to Jurgen Krenkels site.

MF in your pocket:

http://www.cleanimages.com/articles/MediumFormatInYourPocket/folders.htm

Jurgen:

www.certo6.com

If you want the best value in all of the formats for the money, look at all the medium format sizes in the complete G series of Fuji or Fujica cameras. All are rangefinders, with accurate focusing, sharp lenses and some with metering.

I have a 6X45 GS645 and an early G690bl interchangeable lens. I also have a number of old folding cameras which I use infrequently.

Folders are kind of like using large format. Many manual operations and they force you to take time to consider, make settings, meter for exposure manually, compose and take the shot. Cumbersome but educational.

More contemporary cameras like the Fujis speed up the process a bit and produce excellent results. You'll be pleasantly surprised when you see the image quality and tonality of your first properly exposed medium format picture.

Have fun.
 
kuzano said:
Also... what are your format requirements. MF comes 6X4.5, 6X6, 6X7 and 6X9. If you want a folder go to the site for "Medium format in your pocket", and from there go to Jurgen Krenkels site.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, that's very interesting.
I think about something relatively compact (comparable with modern 35mm or digital SLRs in size/weight)
 
Well, by their nature folders are pretty compact. I take a 6x9 (Moskva 4) hillwalking with me, as it fits in my map pocket. It's not particularly heavy either. My experience is limited but the only folder I have that I'd call heavy is a 35mm one, a Zeiss-Ikon Contina, that would make a useful cosh. A nice 6x4.5 folder would be a doodle, and would even fit in modern pockets.

As for less than a DSLR in size... Box Brownies are probably smaller in volume, and certainly less in weight! After a folder, you'll wonder why lugged that SLR around!

I'll second the comment about "cumbersome, but educational" - and many fewer knobs than most digital cameras, so not that cumbersome...

Adrian
 
minoltist7 said:
If I will decide to try MF, what cameras to look for (that will not cost me arm and leg) ?

Old FSU cameras (Iskra, Moskva) maybe, but they are hard to find in good operable condition nowadays
Click to expand...

Depends on whether you can do the work on it yourself, whether you are competent at it, or whether you have to hire it done.

If you can do some repairs, then about the least expensive 6x6 camera you can get these days that is still going to be very good, would be an Ansco Speedex Special R (a rangefinder, appropriately enough). I've bought two of them on ebay over the last couple of years for $15 each. However, you will almost certainly need to replace the bellows, unstick the lens and unstick the rangefinder. The bellows is no big deal. There is a crappy camera called the Kodak 66 that has easily harvestable bellows that are the right size, and it's dirt cheap. However, it can take some skill to get the lens operating again without damaging it. Agfa/Ansco used a type of grease between the threads of the lens elements that reacts with the brass, turns green, and sets up like concrete. As a consequence of this, the lens won't focus. You have to get the old grease out and relube it. Then you have to recalibrate the lens. Normal solvents won't do much about the old lube. The solvents only seem to work after the lens elements are seperated. Trying to force it will either break the elements or ruin the threads. Only heat will help. Heat will soften it. Of course too much heat will break the lens just like forcing it. These cameras mostly came with either Apotar and Solinar lenses. Both are good, the Apotar is one of the better cooke triplets and the Solinar is a good Tessar type lens, but the Solinar is better.

This is an Ansco Speedex Special R:

U14445I1194378494.SEQ.0.jpg


and this is the Kodak 66 (with the bellows that are easy to harvest -- just remove the four screws from the back):


 
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I know you want a Rangefinder, but a medium format SLR like an older Mamiya 645 can be bought now very cheap compared to most of the old folders in good condition, and the camera operates more smoothly and quickly and has interchangeable lenses.


I have a Mamiya 645 Super that I bought new for $2200 and now you can get one with back, 80mm lens, prism, and winder grip for less than $500 and the older models like the original M645 are much cheaper...$250 or so for an outfit.
 
Speaking of folders, some years ago I was rummaging around in an old house my parents had deeded to them, and there were several old (and I mean OLD) cameras around, most of which were cheap variations on a theme.

But there was one I latched on to - a Welta 35mm that I think dates from around the late 1930's. It pretty closely resembles some of the old Kodak Retinas, and the thing is built like a brick. (No resemblance to the other one, Argus C-3!!).

This one has a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenon f/2 lens with stops to f/16, shutter speeds 1 - 1/500th plus T and B. It is strictly scale-focusing, and there is no sign of any kind of flash provision. I've tried a couple of rolls of print film in it, and with the Schneider lens, it comes through quite nicely. Even has a sort of parallax corrector on the viewfinder, and there's also a cable release socket. The only thing that doesn't work is the frame counter, but with 35mm, you don't have to guess when you reach the end. Of course, you then have to go through the rather laborious process of rewinding. (Funny how we have sort of forgotten about that one!) All in all, a rather interesting piece for that long ago.
 
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Rolleicord with a Triotar $60
Yashicamat 124 $80
Rolleicord with a Tessar $100
Mamiya TLR with an 80mm (many similar models) $150
Rolleiflex with a Tessar $175
Kowa Six with an 80mm $250
Rolleiflex with a Planar $500
Hasselblad 500C with a Planar $600

-- all fine cameras
 
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A good Iskra is a very nice thing to have.

I recently saw a Konica Perl II, 6x4.5, with coupled rangefinder, go for under $200.
I just bought a Balda super baldax, 6x6, coupled rangefinder and f2.8 tessar copy lens. I have a lesser balda that is a great little camera, so I'm looking forward to that one.
 
David forgot to mention the Minolta Autocord, wonderful TLR (look on Dante Stella's site).
If you want a rangefinder, I highly recommand the Fuji GS645S for 4,5x6cm.
It has a razor sharp 60mm lens, a suberb finder with moving frame lines, easy to
see with spectacles and a great built in light meter. It's compact and light weight.
Should be possible to get a good one for some $300.
 
Graflex XL. Bulky, but a lovely bit of kit, and not too horribly expensive. Vastly more rigid than any folder; better lens than almost any; can be adapted to take Mamiya RB67 backs.

And, I hasten to add, a rangefinder and not an SLR or TLR.

Cheers,

R.
 
Koni Omega and Rapid Omegas. Very good lenses, 6x7 image, interchangeable backs on some models. Make sure you find one with a recently serviced back - the back is the weak link in the camera for as they wear the negative spacing goes wonky.
 
dll927 said:
Speaking of folders, some years ago I was rummaging around in an old house my parents had deeded to them, and there were several old (and I mean OLD) cameras around, most of which were cheap variations on a theme.

But there was one I latched on to - a Welta 35mm that I think dates from around the late 1930's. It pretty closely resembles some of the old Kodak Retinas, and the thing is built like a brick. (No resemblance to the other one, Argus C-3!!).

This one has a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenon f/2 lens with stops to f/16, shutter speeds 1 - 1/500th plus T and B. It is strictly scale-focusing, and there is no sign of any kind of flash provision. I've tried a couple of rolls of print film in it, and with the Schneider lens, it comes through quite nicely. Even has a sort of parallax corrector on the viewfinder, and there's also a cable release socket. The only thing that doesn't work is the frame counter, but with 35mm, you don't have to guess when you reach the end. Of course, you then have to go through the rather laborious process of rewinding. (Funny how we have sort of forgotten about that one!) All in all, a rather interesting piece for that long ago.
Click to expand...

Does it look like this?

(Welta Welti)

U14445I1194378545.SEQ.0.jpg
 
sorry to throw this off, but thought i might throw in the Fuji series too.. The GS645S (60/4) is a cheap (250$ish) non folder that has a terribly accurate meter with a cute crash bar in front.

The wide version (GW645pro) is not coupled, but has a 40/4 lens and is a folder, and tiny. (400$ish)

I have the Gs645s and have lugged it to places never thought possible, -30deg C half dome yosemite in winter, and 45deg C Bombay streets, dust, rain, snow, baby cousin's food mix/puke, and it still runs!

my 2 cents. :)
 
My vote is for the Iskra folder. That camera never ceases to amaze. Be patient, wait for a good one. I'm sure there are many other quality folders but the Iskra is the only folder I own currently and I couldn't be happier with it. Check out Flickr for lots of Iskra sample photos. There are a couple Iskras up on eBay now.

Any MF worth its salt will give gorgeous results. Way better than anything in 35. A good folder with a coupled RF that's fully functional is a thing to behold. The results are worth the inconvenience of their relative crudeness. Lots of good suggestions here. A restored Certo6 folder might be your best price/performance bet, though it's unlikely he'll have an Iskra. For me, I really hate scale focus and the red window film counting method. The rest I can live with. The Iskra has a terrific lens, a nice bright RF (mine does anyway), and a film counter. Do check out the gorgeous samples of what this camera is capable of on Flickr under the Iskra tag.
 
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It is the only medium format RF I've used, but I'll throw another pitch in for the Fuji gs645s. I'm sure the w version is just as good, though scale focus.
The pluses are that it is a relatively modern camera with a meter and fantastic lens and is VERY compact. The downers, it is supposed to be a little frail, and only 6x4.5 sized.
I haven't broken mine yet, and I take it some pretty dangerous and dirty places...
 
trev2401, I hate to correct you, but the GS645W, the wide version
of the full mechanical Fujis, is no folder. Only the GS645 with the 75mm lens is a folding camera (which is very fragile). Had them all and would highly recommend the GS645S (60mm) with the crash bar as the most versatile of the bunch. The lens is unbeatable!!!
 
This would make a good sticky, with some photos or more detailed instructions concerning the nuts and bolts of rehabing the lens and rangefinder.
 
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