Leica LTM Help! 2nd roll - found light leaks?!?!?

[anoldsock]

...so I developed a second test roll for a Leica IIIc that I just picked up a few weeks back. The first roll came out pretty well, but the second roll seems to have some light leaks. I'm a bit perplexed because I would figure that any light leaks would have came out in the first roll as well.

I included some photos and would appreciate any feed back if these are indeed light leaks, or perhaps it's something entirely different.

I don't have a scanner, so I shot these with my 5D. Please excuse the quality. Thanks in advance!

*Edit: Would like to add that of the entire roll, only two shots came back without and signs of having light leaks. Also, the first couple of shots I kept the lens cap on, and after reviewing the negatives there are some discolorations. Looks like there may be light leaks coming from somewhere other than through the shutter. Can someone confirm this? Again, many thanks!!!

 

[myoptic3]

I've never seen light leaks exactly like that, but that may mean nothing. Odd that they would have those round, circular shapes, but I am used to SLR's w/ back loading film doors. Almost looks like reflections rather than light leaks. The interior shot really shouldn't look like the outdoor shots if it's light leaks. Film is cheap. Buy a fresh roll, but first carefully inspect the camera by opening the bottom and going into a dark closet. Shine a small flashlight along the back to see if it is leaking thru into the interior of the camera. Visually inspect everything outside in good light next. If nothing obvious shows up, shoot the new roll of film and have it processed somewhere else to rule out that it was the lab and not the camera.

 

[gjlynx]

I posted a question related to light leaks on a IIIC a few months ago. Maybe you
can find something useful there. So, the patterns are showing up even with the lens cap on?

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52637

 

[anoldsock]

I did think it was kind of odd that I encountered the same patterns indoors as I did outdoors. And the patterns also appear on the negative where I left the lens cap on. That's why I am begining to believe the "leaks" if any are coming somewhere from the side of the body.


Thanks for the link gjlynx, it's always nice to see another Texan on the board. Were you able to solve your problem?

I also attached another photo from the same roll where it looks like I may be having problems with my shutter, any thoughts on this?

It's just odd that the light problems would appear on the 2nd test roll and not on the 1st.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Is your Leica "naked" or do you have it in a leather eveready case ?

The semi-circular marks appear to be all along the same edge of the film: bottom of the print, which would be top edge of the film when in the camera (the lens flips the image upside-down)...

Are there any screws missing from around the edge of the top plate ( where the chrome top meets the black body covering) ?

The traffic image ( # 3) looks as though the shutter did not fully open before the second curtain came along (indicates need for CLA)...

If you got the same semi-circular marks on the same edge of the negative/prints from the frames where the lens cap was on, that would suggest body leaks.

You might try the following: get some cheap film, 12 exposure, if you can find it, or if 24, split the roll in half or thirds, trying the following:

Frames 1-8: After loading your film, run some black electrical tape around the joint between the bottom plate and the body. Go shoot the first 8 frames.

Frames 9-16: add a second band of e-tape where the top plate meets the body. Shoot frames 9-16.

Frames 17-24: put two vertical e-tape "band-aids" over the body screws on either side of the lens on the camera front. Finish your roll on a bright day, where you can bracket your exposure through the range of shutter speeds from 1/30 through 1/1000 ( test shutter operation).

The idea behind this suggestion is to systematically seal, then test possible light-leak areas of the body. If the light leaks seem to have gone away after step one, two , or three, then that will give some aid to the repair man - and you will have some pics to send in with the camera, demonstrating the problem.

Good luck !

Luddite Frank

 

[anoldsock]

Thanks for the response.

I am shooting naked, and I am indeed missing a screw. In particular the screw at the top closest to the advanced knob. However, when I'm looking up from the bottom with the plate off, I don't see any lights coming in. Actually, now that I think about it, when I look at the pattern , it kinda makes sense. It's almost as if the pattern is originating from a small hole, like oh i dunno... a missing SCREW?!?

Anyway, I'll try some electrical tape on it and see if the conditions doesn't improve.

Also, that's a good idea trying the different shutter speeds and see if they don't fire correctly.

*Crossing my fingers it's just the missing screw.

 

[gjlynx]

I did think it was kind of odd that I encountered the same patterns indoors as I did outdoors. And the patterns also appear on the negative where I left the lens cap on. That's why I am begining to believe the "leaks" if any are coming somewhere from the side of the body.


Thanks for the link gjlynx, it's always nice to see another Texan on the board. Were you able to solve your problem?

I also attached another photo from the same roll where it looks like I may be having problems with my shutter, any thoughts on this?

It's just odd that the light problems would appear on the 2nd test roll and not on the 1st.

I was never able to solve the problem. I even had the shutter curtains replaced and that did not help. The problem was intermittant and not being able to find the solution I returned that particular camera to the original owner for a refund.
I'm no expert but this photo does look like the result of a shutter problem; maybe the second curtain is lagging?

 

[payasam]

The barber shop sign picture looks like a shutter problem, and the circular leaks may well be a consequence of the missing screw.

 

[M. Valdemar]

How were these rolls of film developed?

Maybe a light leak in the processing machine, film canister, or film tank and nothing to do with the camera.

Light looks like coming through frame holes, like if on a spool.

 

[Luddite Frank]

If there's a screw missing from the back side of the top-plate, I would bet real money that it's part of this story...

There's a lot of machinery between the front face of the camera and the film plane; almost nothing between the back face of the camera and the film plane.

The half-frame shots (Lynx's Barber sign and Sock's traffic shot from the driver's seat) look like shutter drag / incomplete opening. ( if either of your Leicas is missing the shutter release collar (and even if the collar IS there), be careful that the tip of your right-index finger does not drag the shutter speed dial when you press the release: this will foul-up the shutter operation.)

This fall, I tried grabbing some shots of a local steam excursion with my Exakta (evil)SLR - since I was nearly at right angles to the motion of the train, I had set the shutter on 1/1000th, to try to freeze the motion.
When I got my pics back, the left half of the prints were fine, but the right-half were black, with some black "fuzzy streaks" ( cartoonists call them " brffts " they are drawn behind a character to indicate movement) heading towards the left edge of the print: the first shutter curtain had not fully opened before the second curtain came along and "capped". These were the only pics on that roll snapped at 1/1000th; the rest were fine.

The other Leica shutter problem I will have encountered is with my III-f (600xxx, 1950-'51): I was getting frames every now and then with bad flare spots (usually when shooting towards the sun)... I was blaming the collapsible Summicron. Eventually I noticed they were in the same places in the prints on different rolls of film / different types of shots; then I noticed the crackles in the shutter curtains. The "lens flare" turned-out to be leaky shutter curtains.
The same Summicron has perfomed flare-lessly for dozens of rolls on another body (chrome III, 1934).

Try some e-tape over that screw hole... then see how that shutter is performing.

Good luck !

LF

 

[anoldsock]

Ok, so good news...I covered up the missing screw with some electrical tape, and shot some 2 test rolls and the light leaks disappeared, when i removed the tape the light leaks came back. Whew problem solved. However, I did notice another problem. I did get some of the streaks that Luddite Frank was referring to, but I don't remember touching the shutter speed dial when shooting. Does this mean I'll need some good ol' CLA?

LF were you able to determine what caused those streaks? From your description it sounded like the 1st curtain capped too late, or the 2nd curtain fired too early, were you able to find an easy fix?

 

[anoldsock]

*Note: I notice that the streaking black lines tend to happen towards the end of the roll rather than intermittently throughout, any thoughts on this?

 

[Luddite Frank]

The first curtain is dragging towards the end of its travel, and not opening fully before the second curtain follows along and closes ( this is known as "capping").

Regarding the streaks occuring near the end of the roll: were all shots taken using the same shutter speed ? I don't think where you were in the roll is relevant; the shutter winds-up the same wether you're at the beginning, middle, or end of the roll (or have no film at all).

The streaks are simply an abberation from the dragging shutter curtain; I've this same effect in several different makes of focal-plane shutter cameras that had gummy, draggy shutters.


I did not resolve this problem with my Exakta - it only happened when I was shooting at 1/1000 (which is hardly ever); at 53 years of age, the camera needs a CLA, as do 4/5ths of my Leica collection.

I'm not keen on shooting WD-40 or Ronsonol inside a camera, trying to make it go.

It sounds like your camera would benefit from a CLA, and having that screw replaced. Lots of folks here like DAG (Don Goldberg), and he has lots of parts...
Sherry Krauter and Youxin Ye also have good reps for service.

You've come a long way, having nailed-down the source of the light-leak.

I would suggest making a list for the serviceman, and sending the camera out for a CLA - you'll get years of service from a fresh CLA.

Good luck !

LF

 

[anoldsock]

Thanks for the response LF, i'm a little worried on the turn around time for the CLA. I'd like to use the IIIC for an upcoming trip in early May. I'll shoot them an email for an estimate and see how soon i can get it back. Thanks everyone for all your help.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Youxin Ye seems to be tops for quick turn-around, from what I've seen folks say about him here at RFF.


Good luck !

LF

 

[brachal]

I'd recommend Youxin, especially if you're in a hurry. I think his usual turn-around is within two weeks of getting the camera. I sent him my IIIf in November, and the work was first-rate.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

How were these rolls of film developed?

Maybe a light leak in the processing machine, film canister, or film tank and nothing to do with the camera.

Light looks like coming through frame holes, like if on a spool.

That's what it looks like to me; it really looks like somebody effed-up at the lab.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Ok, so good news...I covered up the missing screw with some electrical tape, and shot some 2 test rolls and the light leaks disappeared, when i removed the tape the light leaks came back.

Well, that settles that one. Those are the weirdest leaks I've seen on a frame that are not a result of post-camera error.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I have leaks on an Argus Brick that are similar to this. I wonder if taping the thing would help me, too?

 

[brachal]

Well, that settles that one. Those are the weirdest leaks I've seen on a frame that are not a result of post-camera error.

I had an almost identical problem with a roll from by Bessa once -- operator error at the lab, but it scared the heck out of me!