Other camera to try ?

[Wladimir]

Hello,

Friend of my is offering me cameras to buy, to try other as FED-2. I choose one from two, not expensive.

First is only KNEB, second is Kueb-Kiev with strange big black button and crank, also plastic self-timer.
Lens are same, say Jupiter 8.
Two cameras work good. But friend say self-timer of Kueb-Kiev sometime work, sometime not.

Which best ?

Thanks very much for help,
Wlad

 

[xayraa33]

go for the KNEB.

 

[Spyderman]

Difficult to say when we don't know what the look like, how they work etc. But if the KNEB is a Kiev 2 or 3, I'd go for that one.

 

[nzeeman]

if both work, take the KNEB if it is from 50s (read serial number if it starts with 5 and even better if start with 4 😉 ) many say it is golden age for kievs.

 

[Kino Glaz]

Dear Wlad, Nzeeman, Ondrej:

My Kiev is similar. It also has "kueb-kiev" logo. The same plastic self timer which does not work, but all other functions are OK. There are times when the shutter would open by itself, when changing shutter speeds. The winding dial is sometimes difficult to turn when changing between 1/5 to 1/125 sec settings.

I like to know more aboutmy Kiev, but I am not sure of the model and when it was made. Reading from the Kiev sites, I think my Kiev is a 4a. It has a serial number of 8405595 on its hotshoe. Nzeeman, are the 1950s Kiev really better? I think my Kiev is very good. In what ways do "golden age" Kiev better the ones from the ordinary periods?

 

[nzeeman]

Nzeeman, are the 1950s Kiev really better? I think my Kiev is very good. In what ways do "golden age" Kiev better the ones from the ordinary periods?

mine from 50s is smoother and more silent. but it is only one example from 50s so i cant generalize... other people say similar things, but vf is a bit brighter on kiev 4am...

 

[Wladimir]

Thanks all for answering !

What is "Kiev 4am" ?

 

[nzeeman]

What is "Kiev 4am" ?

it is last generation of kievs. it has different rewind crank, and different winding. also it has a fixed take up spool. but people say it has light leaks more often...

 

[Wladimir]

Thanks everybody for all details about Kueb-Kiev or KNEB.

This seem very very complicated camera to me. Also it is big and heavy and when I take picture it make a strange WHOOIZZZ noise.

KNEB seem be covered by true leather, Kueb-Kiev is covered by ugly black plastic, not nice.

Maybe I will stay with FED-2, I don't know still.

Do you know a good Internet page about Kiev camera ?

Thank you much !

Wlad

 

[.Lucifuge.]

Try this link http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/

Greets

 

[brachal]

The Kueb-Kiev sounds like a Kiev-4am. While these have some nice design features (the change to the rewind clutch is one), they have a very poor reputation for quality. I had one, and the shutter ribbons broke after less than one roll. I would go with the KNEB.

 

[ErnestoJL]

Hi Wladimir!
Kievs (or KNEB in cyrillic) were made in different flavours to say:

Kievs 2 and 3 were made from 1949 to about 1956 and carry serial numbers like 4xNNNNN ans 5xNNNNN where 4x/5x are the two digits that tell manufacturing year.
Those cameras are the closest clones of the german made Contax II and Contax III, so close that many of the first cameras made were made at Kievskii Arsenal Zavod with original german made parts, but they are difficult to find as they become highly collectible items, and of course pricey. Name is written only in cyrillic, and almost no plastic parts in them.

The next evolution step was the Kiev 4 series which instead of changing number model (2 or 3) used same numbering (now is 4) but differentiated models with a letter (Kiev 4 or Kiev 4a) where the "a" means a meterless camera. All those cameras have name writen both in cyrillic as well as roman characters. This practice was followed till the production end.

Next Kiev step was the Kiev 4M and 4aM.
Allways "a" means a meterless camera, and the M indicates some additional changes like redesigned rewind knob (now with a foldable lever) redesigned speed dial, plastic covered selftimer lever instead of chromed brass, fixed take up spool.
Finishing shows as being of lower quality than their older counterparts. Only good thing of cameras made after 1978 is that they were originally fitted with the superb Helios 103(53mmm f 1.8), instead of the excellent (one of my favourites) Jupiter 8M (a Zeiss Sonnar f2 clone excellently made in the USSR).

IMO, the best Kiev cameras you can get are those made from 1949 to 1968, where quality control was perhaps still reasonable. All of them should have the Jupiter 8 or 8 M lens. Old types have no click f stops, later models have them.
They are truly excellent cameras even today after 40 or more years.
If I were offered to buy them I´ll go for the KNEB first, and later for the other ones as spare cameras.

Good luck, and enjoy them!

Cheers

Ernesto

 

[Wladimir]

I have looked at site "Kiev Survival". Wow, it's very nice site but seem very complicated for me too.

Is there other site for Kiev, more simple for beginner like me ?

Maybe somebody here use much Kiev daily ?

KNEB camera of friend has 567253 on flash shoe, good one ?
I think I will go for this, not the Kueb-Kiev.

Thanks !
Wlad

 

[brachal]

I have looked at site "Kiev Survival". Wow, it's very nice site but seem very complicated for me too.

Is there other site for Kiev, more simple for beginner like me ?

Maybe somebody here use much Kiev daily ?

KNEB camera of friend has 567253 on flash shoe, good one ?
I think I will go for this, not the Kueb-Kiev.

Thanks !
Wlad

There isn't much to it, really. Load the film, wind, and shoot. The Kiev is a complex design, so don't take the top off unless you're prepared.

I use a Kiev sometimes. If you have a specific question, I'll try to answer it. Ruben is the site's Kiev Master. He has tremendous knowledge and experience with the Kiev.

From the serial#, your friend's KNEB is a 1956 Kiev 2a. Very very close to the original Contax in all ways, and from a period with superb quality. I have a 55 2a, and its build rivals that of my Leica IIIf. You could consider 1955 - 1965 to be the "golden age" of FSU cameras.

 

[timmyd18]

Wladimir:

Here is a link to an instruction manual for a Kiev 4 Am (the "Kueb-Kiev")

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/russian/kiev-4M/kiev-4-splash.htm

There are some strange things about the camera that you've pointed out, like where the film rewind is and other quirks, too. I just got my 4 am, but I find it interesting to use and it seems to take very good pictures. So I'd say use it AND your Fed-2! (maybe put a different focal length lens on one and then drag both around)

That being said, my advice is the same as everyone else's, the older Kiev is probably higher quality and I'm sure is worth more. You can get a 4am on ebay for very very low cost if you are interested later.

tim

 

[Wladimir]

Thank you all again for tips interesting. This is very great forum ! Wow.

Now before I buy KNEB from friend I have another question.

What I like do most is street photography. Can I make street photographys fast and also discrete with KNEB like with FED-2 ?

Thanks !
Wlad

 

[brachal]

Thank you all again for tips interesting. This is very great forum ! Wow.

Now before I buy KNEB from friend I have another question.

What I like do most is street photography. Can I make street photographys fast and also discrete with KNEB like with FED-2 ?

Thanks !
Wlad

It's bigger than the FED-2, but other than that I don't think there'd be much difference. The KNEB has a much greater range of shutter speeds, which may be helpful. I don't think of either of these cameras being especially fast to use. If speed is an issue, my best advice would be to pick a reasonable shutter speed and then alter the exposure by adjusting aperture as needed. Works much better for me than messing with these cameras' shutter controls ... at least if you're in a hurry.

 

[ruben]

Hi Wlad,

At this stage I will make a few and brief remarks.

a) By no means Ruben is to be held as a Kiev Master, but as a Kiev enthusiast user. This is a measured truth to start with, and follow accordingly my next points.

b) I actually do street photography with Kievs only, almost only.

c) There are two highly important, basic differences in my opinion between Kievs and Feds. If you choose Kiev you are implying a certain technical tendency inside you to make yourself, one day not now, able to maintain your camera at its highest potential. If you feel yourself as unwilling forever to fiddle with the camera mechanics, then better say it good bye.

The other highly important issue is that you are choosing between two different lens mounts. The classic Zeiss/Kiev mount, or the Leica old screw mount. It seems to me that the variety of lenses available in the LTM mount (leica thread mount) is quite broader and by several times than Zeiss/Kiev.

And precisely for this reason, knowing my weakness for lens buying, one day I made my mind to avoid the LTM.

3) You speak about a friend offering you both cameras and it seems that you can go to his home. Then why not going, smelling, touching, looking, etc, and then follow your instincts ?

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Wladimir]

Thanks ! It's top to have site Kiev Survival master Ruben here ! What great forum ! I'm very happy to have find RFF.

Okay I think I go buy old KNEB from friend, not plastic Kueb-Kiev. But some one or too things are make me fear yet.

Kiev Master write, that Kiev camera have to be myself repaired all time to stay good mechanics, or I have to say good bye to other members ? True ?

Also, I have to smell Kiev before to use ? Why ?

Thanks !
Wlad

 

[RFOBD]

Also, I have to smell Kiev before to use ? Why ?

I think Ruben just meant that you should go touch and feel the cameras before you buy one. Experience them both and then choose.