kievman
Kievman
Gi all you intrepid camera tinkers. I bought a Kiev 4a -am recently from camera dealer in Ohia recently on ebay This is a extreme late 4a without meter, Serial # 79XXXXXX and the Jupitar lens it came with was 80XXXXX\, the lens is marked 53 F2.0. I read somehere that the really late models of jupitar - 8 were marked this way. I recent ran my first roll of film thru this camera and all my negs were out of focus! Before you assume I dont know how to use the rangefinder, I must mention I have owned many Canon, yashica, and numerious other rangefinder cameras before. I compared this 4A with my 3A and 4b's focusing them all at the same distance from a object and checking the markings on the len's distance scales, all show the same distance. On that fiirst roll I also tested a borrowed Contax Sonnar 50 - F1.5 and all those shots were out of focus too. I chec k the fillm plate- no problems there. the only guestimate I could come up with is this - the camera has a different Back focus then the lens. Mybe this camera was a late import to the US? and the lens came from different cameras? I also must mention that I shot the images at many different distances from the camera. most of lens tests were done at about a 8 feet approx and the camera seems to be focusing in front of the wall a foot or so. Any help or suggestings would be greatly appreciated. Michael
Ed S.
Member
I’ve had good results with several Kiev lenses on my Kiev-4a, so I believe that the late-model Kiev-4’s were designed to use earlier Kiev-2, -3 and –4 lenses. But with the variability in Soviet build quality in the 80’s, "built" might not equal "design". I think that "adjusted" does, though. My Kiev-4a is a 1980’s vintage that I recently had CLA’s by Fedka; quite good, and fast turn-around.
Have you tried the 1980-vintage J-8 on any of your known-good Kievs? This test should narrow the problem down to the J-8 or the Kiev-4a body.
Measuring and comparing the mount dimensions of the J-8 and other known-good lenses that you have might point to a specific problem with the J-8.
Similar measurements and comparisons between the Kiev camera bodies (include lens mount focus movements) should show any camera issues.
The Kiev-4 has a "T" function, but sticking a caliper through the open shutter is still risky. It’s better (and easier and faster) to measure from the film plane back to a point, then measure forward, outside of the camera, to the face of the lens mount. Adjust focus to several marked points, then swap bodies and repeat. Compare measurements.
This set of tests should narrow the problem down to either the lens, the camera body/mount or the rangefinder.
This is only of some small help, but it might indicate that only a couple of adjustments are needed. But if you send your Kiev all the way back to, well, Kiev, or some place close by, a complete service of all parts is probably the best choice.
Have you tried the 1980-vintage J-8 on any of your known-good Kievs? This test should narrow the problem down to the J-8 or the Kiev-4a body.
Measuring and comparing the mount dimensions of the J-8 and other known-good lenses that you have might point to a specific problem with the J-8.
Similar measurements and comparisons between the Kiev camera bodies (include lens mount focus movements) should show any camera issues.
The Kiev-4 has a "T" function, but sticking a caliper through the open shutter is still risky. It’s better (and easier and faster) to measure from the film plane back to a point, then measure forward, outside of the camera, to the face of the lens mount. Adjust focus to several marked points, then swap bodies and repeat. Compare measurements.
This set of tests should narrow the problem down to either the lens, the camera body/mount or the rangefinder.
This is only of some small help, but it might indicate that only a couple of adjustments are needed. But if you send your Kiev all the way back to, well, Kiev, or some place close by, a complete service of all parts is probably the best choice.
Spyderman
Well-known
Please ignore what Ed wrote. I don't mean to insult him, but it's not the correct way of doing things.
Kievman: seems you are pretty experienced in things. Since you say both lenses are out of focus in a similar way, we can assume it's not the lens. You also tested the rangefinder and it agrees with several other rangefinders. One more thing you can do to check the rangefinder is to use measuring tape and measure the distance of your focus target more precisely.
This only supports your opinion that it's incorrect register distance (film to mount).
This is a very difficult thing to adjust and I'm not an expert at this either. So please take a look at the KSS page about adjusting register distance.
Kievman: seems you are pretty experienced in things. Since you say both lenses are out of focus in a similar way, we can assume it's not the lens. You also tested the rangefinder and it agrees with several other rangefinders. One more thing you can do to check the rangefinder is to use measuring tape and measure the distance of your focus target more precisely.
This only supports your opinion that it's incorrect register distance (film to mount).
This is a very difficult thing to adjust and I'm not an expert at this either. So please take a look at the KSS page about adjusting register distance.
Last edited:
Ed S.
Member
I’m not offended.
Using measuring tape to verify focus range is a useful action. But the resulting photos will again confirm that a focus problem exists, not directly identify the cause.
Note that the procedure on the Kiev Survival Site measures distances through the shutter. I did this with my Pentax, just once, and slipped . . . . . . fortunately, no damage. But I see no need to take the same risk again. Also, it requires modifying a caliper; I can’t do this, but I know someone who can. There’s a cost involved, maybe the modification is worth the money.
Measuring on the outside of the camera body is less accurate, but for a quick measurement, it has its advantages. A thick, precision aluminum washer over the film plane, will make external measurements easy.
Do the measurements and compare: are the problem-Kiev measurements slightly greater? Perhaps the lens mount assembly isn’t mounted quite correctly. Perhaps something’s not indexed correctly (perhaps 1 tooth off?).
Alternatively, maybe the measurements look the same. Measure the mount areas of a couple of lenses (just in case), and compare a couple of rangefinder readings form 2 or more cameras. The RF might need an adjustment.
All these things sound like adjustment issues, but maybe not simple ones. Like most guys, I prefer to do my own maintenance and repair, or at least get an idea of what the problem is that I’m experiencing, and satisfy myself that it’s not a simple fix.
But for not too much money, I can pay an expert to diagnose and fix the problem(s). The cost is usually cheaper when the camera has not been "repaired" already. Oleg and Fedka are experts, are known to be successful, and are inexpensive.
Using measuring tape to verify focus range is a useful action. But the resulting photos will again confirm that a focus problem exists, not directly identify the cause.
Note that the procedure on the Kiev Survival Site measures distances through the shutter. I did this with my Pentax, just once, and slipped . . . . . . fortunately, no damage. But I see no need to take the same risk again. Also, it requires modifying a caliper; I can’t do this, but I know someone who can. There’s a cost involved, maybe the modification is worth the money.
Measuring on the outside of the camera body is less accurate, but for a quick measurement, it has its advantages. A thick, precision aluminum washer over the film plane, will make external measurements easy.
Do the measurements and compare: are the problem-Kiev measurements slightly greater? Perhaps the lens mount assembly isn’t mounted quite correctly. Perhaps something’s not indexed correctly (perhaps 1 tooth off?).
Alternatively, maybe the measurements look the same. Measure the mount areas of a couple of lenses (just in case), and compare a couple of rangefinder readings form 2 or more cameras. The RF might need an adjustment.
All these things sound like adjustment issues, but maybe not simple ones. Like most guys, I prefer to do my own maintenance and repair, or at least get an idea of what the problem is that I’m experiencing, and satisfy myself that it’s not a simple fix.
But for not too much money, I can pay an expert to diagnose and fix the problem(s). The cost is usually cheaper when the camera has not been "repaired" already. Oleg and Fedka are experts, are known to be successful, and are inexpensive.
kievman
Kievman
Thanks Ed and Spyderman for you advice and input on my problem. I suspect its a film registration problem. and a little too difficult for me to fix, so off the camera goes to Oleg for a repair and a good CLA. the camera is in good condition otherwise, so its worth it Again thanks for your input - Michael
kievman
Kievman
Hi Gang, I did my tests again, and I checked the distances from lens mount to film plain with a metric ruler on all of my Kievs and they all matched up surpisjngly!, so that rules out film registration problems, so I went back to square one. I compare rangefinder readings again but this time I did it for two distances - 1.15 meters and 2 meters. At 1.15 meters all the rangefinders matched up. At 2 meters the kiev 3a and 4b were matching up, but the problematic 4a-am was showing 1.7 meters, so that is mostly likely the problem, Its surpising they would match up at the closer distance but not at farither away. but maybe at the dloser distances the difference is so slight it does not show up? --Michael
i
i