DWeston
DWeston
my opinion may differ...
my opinion may differ...
As a past owner of a Mamiya 7 as well as other MF gear, like Hassy, Fuji 6x9, and a current owner of an M8 and 5D, I would like to offer another opinion. I have a 4x5 and no longer use that either, but I do get the bug from time to time. With either current cameras, the M8 or 5D, and most lenses, one can make just about any size print they wish, I have done 24x36 prints on my old 7600 printer that easily equal or surpass all the MF images in quality I had made. These were all printed not by me, but by professional labs at the time.
In some ways we as photographers are really at a time of greatness as far as equipment is concerned, a renaissance if you will. Does it take a committment to learn new techniques, sure, but I look back at images I made or had printed a decade ago or longer and am amazed by the quality of todays gear....albeit, I might have gotten better in my old age, also, but the ease of making consistently good images, prints is far easier to day. Either of my current kits is much lighter by kilograms then my old Hassy or 4x5 gear, not to mention loads smaller. This does not mean one can become sloppy in technique, but the results are there to be had if one cares and my creative juices are not weighted down by bags of film etc....jmho......
I would also guess that most of us would be very happy with a carefully shot and printed 30x45 or larger.....may have to do some 30x45 crops and compare to the same size large 30x45 or larger prints I have in my office that were made with 4x5 previously.....bet they come awfully close...
my opinion may differ...
As a past owner of a Mamiya 7 as well as other MF gear, like Hassy, Fuji 6x9, and a current owner of an M8 and 5D, I would like to offer another opinion. I have a 4x5 and no longer use that either, but I do get the bug from time to time. With either current cameras, the M8 or 5D, and most lenses, one can make just about any size print they wish, I have done 24x36 prints on my old 7600 printer that easily equal or surpass all the MF images in quality I had made. These were all printed not by me, but by professional labs at the time.
In some ways we as photographers are really at a time of greatness as far as equipment is concerned, a renaissance if you will. Does it take a committment to learn new techniques, sure, but I look back at images I made or had printed a decade ago or longer and am amazed by the quality of todays gear....albeit, I might have gotten better in my old age, also, but the ease of making consistently good images, prints is far easier to day. Either of my current kits is much lighter by kilograms then my old Hassy or 4x5 gear, not to mention loads smaller. This does not mean one can become sloppy in technique, but the results are there to be had if one cares and my creative juices are not weighted down by bags of film etc....jmho......
I would also guess that most of us would be very happy with a carefully shot and printed 30x45 or larger.....may have to do some 30x45 crops and compare to the same size large 30x45 or larger prints I have in my office that were made with 4x5 previously.....bet they come awfully close...
funkaoshi
Well-known
Avotius, if you are printing that large, you really need a Mamiya 7...
Apparently he doesn't, since he mentions he can print that large with results he enjoys using a 5D and a 50 f/1.4.
Apparently he doesn't, since he mentions he can print that large with results he enjoys using a 5D and a 50 f/1.4.
funkaoshi
Well-known
A lot of print shops that do digital will help you up-sample your photographs. A good shop may be able to generate something you didn't think was possible from one of your prints.
wstotler
Newbie
Why buy a printer when $20 gets you there?
Why buy a printer when $20 gets you there?
I, like you, can't justify a top-notch printer and its maintenance just to bump larger prints out of the M8.
But, I was really impressed with the quality of a 16x20 I recently had done at a local one-hour photo shop. (Bear with me. I'm not knocking those folks who want to discuss the merits of paper, printer profiling, multiple inks, etc.) Maybe the 16x20 isn't near perfect or "fully realized" by the print job they did, but most of my photos live digitally so the 16x20 was a real treat. E.g., It was $20 well spent and looked fantastic!
Thanks,
Will
P.S. The title on this post, "Why buy a printer when $20 gets you there?" isn't meant to be offensive--just a response to his post. Thanks.
Why buy a printer when $20 gets you there?
I, like you, can't justify a top-notch printer and its maintenance just to bump larger prints out of the M8.
But, I was really impressed with the quality of a 16x20 I recently had done at a local one-hour photo shop. (Bear with me. I'm not knocking those folks who want to discuss the merits of paper, printer profiling, multiple inks, etc.) Maybe the 16x20 isn't near perfect or "fully realized" by the print job they did, but most of my photos live digitally so the 16x20 was a real treat. E.g., It was $20 well spent and looked fantastic!
Thanks,
Will
P.S. The title on this post, "Why buy a printer when $20 gets you there?" isn't meant to be offensive--just a response to his post. Thanks.
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jplomley
Established
With either current cameras, the M8 or 5D, and most lenses, one can make just about any size print they wish, I have done 24x36 prints on my old 7600 printer that easily equal or surpass all the MF images in quality
Guess it depends what your criteria are for an acceptable print. Sure, I can make 24x36 prints from my M8, but they are not the same quality as a drum scanned Mamiya 7 chrome or B&W neg. And comparing an M8 print at this size to a drum scanned 4x5 Velvia-50 chrome taken with any of the modern LF lenses (Rodenstock APO Sironar-S or Schneider SSXL) is just a joke. Now, if you are comparing 6x7 and 4x5 scans made on a "pro-sumer" Epson flatbed, then yeah, the M8/5D will give MF and LF a run for its money. But then why would you go to the effort and expense of MF/LF to just underscore the quality with a crappy scan
Guess it depends what your criteria are for an acceptable print. Sure, I can make 24x36 prints from my M8, but they are not the same quality as a drum scanned Mamiya 7 chrome or B&W neg. And comparing an M8 print at this size to a drum scanned 4x5 Velvia-50 chrome taken with any of the modern LF lenses (Rodenstock APO Sironar-S or Schneider SSXL) is just a joke. Now, if you are comparing 6x7 and 4x5 scans made on a "pro-sumer" Epson flatbed, then yeah, the M8/5D will give MF and LF a run for its money. But then why would you go to the effort and expense of MF/LF to just underscore the quality with a crappy scan
DWeston
DWeston
well different strokes..
well different strokes..
also it depends on just how close one looks at these large prints too. if you look at a 24x36 or bigger print from 6 inches and take grain for detail, then you might be correct, but at a viewing distance of 2 feet or more which is customary for this size, there is not that much difference to be realized and I have 20/20 eyesight. Of course you have to justify your additional work and I have justify my M8 expenditures......
Guess we will just agree to disagree on this...
well different strokes..
also it depends on just how close one looks at these large prints too. if you look at a 24x36 or bigger print from 6 inches and take grain for detail, then you might be correct, but at a viewing distance of 2 feet or more which is customary for this size, there is not that much difference to be realized and I have 20/20 eyesight. Of course you have to justify your additional work and I have justify my M8 expenditures......
Guess we will just agree to disagree on this...jplomley
Established
It has been my experience that photographers are the worse breed for pressing nose to print. I agree that Joe Public views from afar, but I bet that most on this forum would have their eyeballs glued to the surface of that puppy...I suppose to some extent, that is what keeps us driven. The quest for perfection (I've actually had my eye on an Arca Swiss 8x10, but this is going to take some convincing of my better half....)
I hear you on the M8 expenditures. It sure is a slippery slope.
I hear you on the M8 expenditures. It sure is a slippery slope.
DWeston
DWeston
I would totally agree with you on these points. I have actually 20/10 vision which means I beleive I see things at 20 feet that most folk see at 10feet. I have consistently gone up format over the last two decades and now sort of back down. The question is when is good, good enough??? There is no answer, I also tried 8x10 about a decade ago, and after 6 mos, gave up. Too much work and time. YMMV... I am just tooo impatient. This was shootng 4x5 for more then 10 yrs. Just liked the quickloads or readyloads too much....
It takes a special kind of photographer to appreciate using a large LF kit, I felt I was MISSING too many images, and so for me and due to some health issues, digital offered me a needed change. I had similar discussions with photographers even with my original D30 and Fuji S1. Both great cameras in their own right way back when in the day.....early 2001 is my guess....in relation to even 35mm film. We all have such different needs leading toward satisfaction, there will NEVER be a right answer that is the same for all.
One last bit of personal history - I had an M6 kit when I got married and my wife bought me a 75mm 'Lux for the wedding, don't worry she got something at least as nice. It was also the time I started going up format and I ended up selling the lens and kit to get a 500CM....don't ask what that caused ..., enough to say I paid for that one, yes we are still married, and now that I have the M8 wish I had that 75mm lens back......too expensive with two kids in college...though I still own the box.....anyone need a 75mm "lux box....
Needs change, vision [and I don't mean eyesight] changes, life goes on....enjoy and let us know how the 8x10 stuff goes....some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen were large prints made from 8x10 chromes.....not mine...DW
.It takes a special kind of photographer to appreciate using a large LF kit, I felt I was MISSING too many images, and so for me and due to some health issues, digital offered me a needed change. I had similar discussions with photographers even with my original D30 and Fuji S1. Both great cameras in their own right way back when in the day.....early 2001 is my guess....in relation to even 35mm film. We all have such different needs leading toward satisfaction, there will NEVER be a right answer that is the same for all.
One last bit of personal history - I had an M6 kit when I got married and my wife bought me a 75mm 'Lux for the wedding, don't worry she got something at least as nice. It was also the time I started going up format and I ended up selling the lens and kit to get a 500CM....don't ask what that caused ...
, enough to say I paid for that one, yes we are still married, and now that I have the M8 wish I had that 75mm lens back......too expensive with two kids in college...though I still own the box.....anyone need a 75mm "lux box....Needs change, vision [and I don't mean eyesight] changes, life goes on....enjoy and let us know how the 8x10 stuff goes....some of the most beautiful images I have ever seen were large prints made from 8x10 chromes.....not mine...DW
Robin Harrison
aka Harrison Cronbi
I only have access to an A4 printer. Prints from that have looked excellent, varying from smooth and sharp from low ISO well-lit shots, to wonderfully grainy and moody from B&W ISO 2500 night shots. I have done some tests at printing quarter-frame samples at full A4 size (equivalent to printing at A2, or roughly 24 x 17) and they hold up very well. I look forward to having some photos from the M8 printing professionally at A3 or A2 once I feel I have a decent 15/20 shot portfolio worthy of the money and effort.
tmfabian
I met a man once...
On the note of grainy and moody, I love grain, i guess it comes from years of developing in rodinal, but for my recent set of prints from the m8 I even went so far as to add more grain to the image(alien skin) and I personally love it.
As far as someone mentioned the local one hour joint pumping out big prints, here in boston the little circle of photographers I belong to has taken a liking to making 12x18 prints from the local costco warehouse, just download the profiles and convert to spec and they come out absolutely on par and even better than 2 professional labs around town.
As far as someone mentioned the local one hour joint pumping out big prints, here in boston the little circle of photographers I belong to has taken a liking to making 12x18 prints from the local costco warehouse, just download the profiles and convert to spec and they come out absolutely on par and even better than 2 professional labs around town.
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Artorius
Caribbean Traveler
I do 13 x 19
I do 13 x 19
I sell a lot of prints on a daily basis. I have gone bigger with a lab, but I usually just do the 13X19, 11X14, on my HP 9180. I wish now I would have been able to go with a bigger printer. At least a 17-18 wide. Unfortunately, HP(my printer of choice) dosen't have this size, yet.
My largest print sale to date, was a very large 30x40. I used FM SI Pro to upsize. I've had very good results using his Plug-in in PSCS3.
I am still shooting with Nikons D1/2 H,X. Less MP, but still doeable at 13-19 and 16-20.
Put them on a wall, and all but the pixel peepers think they are great.
Just my 2¢.
I do 13 x 19
I sell a lot of prints on a daily basis. I have gone bigger with a lab, but I usually just do the 13X19, 11X14, on my HP 9180. I wish now I would have been able to go with a bigger printer. At least a 17-18 wide. Unfortunately, HP(my printer of choice) dosen't have this size, yet.
My largest print sale to date, was a very large 30x40. I used FM SI Pro to upsize. I've had very good results using his Plug-in in PSCS3.
I am still shooting with Nikons D1/2 H,X. Less MP, but still doeable at 13-19 and 16-20.
Put them on a wall, and all but the pixel peepers think they are great.
Just my 2¢.