M6 vs. Ikon

[Penceler]

A follow up to the the 50 thread - handling characteritics, metering & viewfinder?

Also, I am "left eyed". any issues with the advance lever taking out my right eye on the Ikon?

Sorry, painfully few Ikons I can get my hands on here in MD.

 

[Andrew Sowerby]

I just held my ZM up to my left eye. The advance lever didn't bother me. The ZM feels lighter and the covering isn't as nice as on a Leica, but it certainly doesn't feel like a cheap camera. The ZM has AE, of course, which is very useful. It also has a shutter release lock, which I like.

I can't really compare the metering, as I use colour negative film in each. I haven't noticed any difference.

The viewfinder in the ZM is better than in the M6. It's brighter and the framelines for the two most-used focal lengths (35 and 50) are shown alone, which is nice.

Since they cost about the same, it comes down to whether you'd prefer the ZM's AE and better viewfinder or the Leica's build quality and finish.

 

[Keith]

I sold my M7 and replaced it with an Ikon and have few regrets ... aside from missing the very solid better built feel of the Leica, which is partly an illusion caused by the extra weight.

The Ikon viewfinder/rangefinder has no peers so it's pointless comparing it to the M6 in this department. As said it has a very good AE function and also has an extra shutter speed. It beats the M6 in all departments as far as I'm concerned so to choose an M6 over the Zeiss would purely be down to personal preference or an 'all hail Solms' attitude. :angel:

 

[Penceler]

Thanks for the help.

 

[martin-f5]

some weeks ago I could test a Zeiss and compared it with my Leica MP,
after a roll TriX I wouldn't buy one.
for me the viewfinder of the Leica is much clearer and better to focus in dark situations.
The Zeiss is not the same handcrafted tool like a M6.
The one and only argument pro is the AE function,
but who needs that?
Ad of course, it's cheaper, that's true.

 

[arturo]

Nobody mentioned that the main drawback of the Ikon over the M6 is that the shutter is noisier.

Regards,

Arturo

 

[martin-f5]

that's true,
and you must be good in mechanics to find out how to open the box and disload your film :bang:

 

[mfogiel]

The handling and metering is first rate, especially if you use the AE function, which is what I use all the time- My rule is: if I have the time to meter carefully, then I also have the time to put the camera on a tripod, and if I can do that, I use Hasselblads. For critical against the light or big sky shots, you use the AE lock button and you are set. I can change a film in a few seconds without having to resort to second or third attempts ( what happens with my M7 all the time), the camera is light and gives you a good grip.
The VF is simply outclassing Leica and other RF cameras, martin-f5 has a very firm brand belief, but when I put the ZI to my right eye and the M7 to my left, it is like night and day. For taking photos ZI beats Leica hands down, for durability and value conservation, who knows... we have to wait for several years...

 

[martin-f5]

that's sound strange,
we, a collegue and me, compared directly with my MP and it was hardly possible to focus in lowlight situation.
Outside there's of course no prob.
I must say I have a MP not a M6,
maybe there's a difference.

 

[Keith]

that's sound strange,
we, a collegue and me, compared directly with my MP and it was hardly possible to focus in lowlight situation.
Outside there's of course no prob.
I must say I have a MP not a M6,
maybe there's a difference.

Along with 'mfogiel' I find this hard to comprehend. I had an M7 and my Ikon is far easier to focus in low light but eye position is important with the Zeiss due to the large viewfinder.

As for AE that's a personal thing I guess ... I don't use it all the time but I still wouldn't be without it for spontaneous shots where thinking about exposure may cost a good image!

 

[totifoto]

Also, I am "left eyed". any issues with the advance lever taking out my right eye on the Ikon?

What about the AE lock button? Isn´t he on the back of the camera? I´m also a left eye shooter and have been wondering if my face will bee in front of that button and I cant get my finger on it.
I live in Iceland and you cant get this camera here so I cant test it

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

I completely agree with everything Keith wrote. Except, my experience has been with M7s. But, frankly, i would never want an M6. For me, it was M7 or nothing. The M6's metering seems idiotic to me: turn a dial until the arrow stops pointing...

 

[Austerby]

'scuse the ignorance but where is MD?

 

[Zenjitsuman]

The M6 does not have the same functionality of the ZI, the M7 is a better match. Many M7's have had electronic glitches, earlier models with the old VF flared and if you buy one you need to get the M3 VF upgrade.

On the subject of weight and perceived better build, the ZI uses magnesium like the M8 and if this is good enough for a $5k camera it should be rugged enough. I have several cameras made of magnesium and they are tough for daily use without pampering. I enjoy that they are lighter than they would be if they were brass top and bottom.

If you want a new camera that has a warrantee get the ZI, if you get an M7 it will cost more be likely a decade older, need a CLA and have no guarantee. The Leica is 3 times the price new so for me at least, any difference in functional smoothness is expected.
The question is whether that will show up in the final prints.

If you don't like the coverings on the ZI you can get it recovered professionally and still be way less expensive. I would get a half case that would reduce the shutter sound and add a grip.

 

[jbf]

The handling and metering is first rate, especially if you use the AE function, which is what I use all the time- My rule is: if I have the time to meter carefully, then I also have the time to put the camera on a tripod, and if I can do that, I use Hasselblads. For critical against the light or big sky shots, you use the AE lock button and you are set. I can change a film in a few seconds without having to resort to second or third attempts ( what happens with my M7 all the time), the camera is light and gives you a good grip.
The VF is simply outclassing Leica and other RF cameras, martin-f5 has a very firm brand belief, but when I put the ZI to my right eye and the M7 to my left, it is like night and day. For taking photos ZI beats Leica hands down, for durability and value conservation, who knows... we have to wait for several years...

I have to agree on all fronts with one exception (more on that later). The ZI for me is a wonderfully performing camera. It's metering never errs me wrong, and its performed for the most part very well.

As far as the exception... I must sayt hat I definately have seen wear to my camera.

I take a lot of photographs and end up running massive ammounts of film through my camera. Up to 5 or 6 rolls a day and for the past two months that has been every day of the week just about.

The qualms I have about the camera are mainly concerned with its strap lugs and leatherette covering. I've been using my camera for about six to seven months so far, and my strap lugs are showing considerable wear and the leatherette has started to gum up and peel from condensation from my hands.

Keep in mind I am pretty tough on the camera. I've regularly been shooting in rain, etc... However even not considering that, sweat from my hands have caused the leatherette itself to peel and gum up even before exposing it to rain.


So yeah.

I think its somewhat a toss up. The zeiss ikon has a top notch viewfinder and you wont find any other rangefinder with as nice of one, either; however, If you are hard on your equipment, i would probably suggest to buy a Leica just because you are guaranteed to see it last for many many many years to come. With zeiss there is some uncertainty as to how long it may last. While it is built well, in my mind it just doesnt have the same lasting quality or support service behind it as leica does.


Also keep in mind, Ive dropped my ZI hard twice. Once when it slipped off my neck in a crazy set of circumstances, and one when it was dropped by someone else. It has had no issues of ranegfinder misalignment or anything else.

 

[Marc-A.]

Nobody mentioned that the main drawback of the Ikon over the M6 is that the shutter is noisier.

Regards,

Arturo

I can't help laughing ... noisier? Like what? A drill vs a spoon? Sorry, but I've had some cameras and sure the ZI is not the less noisy, but Leicas are not particularly silent either. If you want to compare noises then shoot a Hexar AF ... even a robust Kiev II is quieter than a M7/MP.
IMO, that kind of difference is just irrelevant for shooters in real world.

Now, if one wants a good camera to take picture (not to worship) with the best VF (that enables you to SHOOT IN LOW LIGHT when you can't focus with any Leica M in similar condition) and AE function, the ZI is a great camera, certainly better than the M6 I've tried.
If you don't need meter/AE, take a good old Leica M2/M4 or M3 (for 50); best M cameras, wonderful to use ... and much better built than M6/M7/MP, no question about that.

 

[fleetwoodjazz]

I can't help laughing ... noisier? Like what? A drill vs a spoon? Sorry, but I've had some cameras and sure the ZI is not the less noisy, but Leicas are not particularly silent either. If you want to compare noises then shoot a Hexar AF ... even a robust Kiev II is quieter than a M7/MP.
IMO, that kind of difference is just irrelevant for shooters in real world.

Now, if one wants a good camera to take picture (not to worship) with the best VF (that enables you to SHOOT IN LOW LIGHT when you can't focus with any Leica M in similar condition) and AE function, the ZI is a great camera, certainly better than the M6 I've tried.
If you don't need meter/AE, take a good old Leica M2/M4 or M3 (for 50); best M cameras, wonderful to use ... and much better built than M6/M7/MP, no question about that.

Absolutely true, I have both M6 and Zeiss Ikon and the difference is not that noticeable at all.

My first rangefinder experience is with M6, I was really disappointed with the shutter noise being "legendary quiet"----> I'm sorry but I think it is full of lies.

 

[aizan]

obscure, dubious points against the m6: shutter jams easily and rangefinder spot flares.
obscure, dubious points against the zi: louder shutter and harder to focus in low light.

i would try the m6 first, since that will sell for the same price you got it. the zi will go down in price about $400, so i wouldn't buy it new if i was just starting out.

 

[Andrew Sowerby]

My unbiased take on the noise issue: I've fired my M6 and my ZI side by side just to compare the shutter noise. The Leica is quieter, but not by much. The situations where someone would be able to hear the Zeiss but not the Leica would be few and far between.

Like I said earlier, the covering on the ZI is not that nice. It does feel a bit gummy in warm weather. I would get the covering replaced if you plan to use it a lot in a hot climate. As the OP is in Iceland, that doesn't sound like it will be an issue.

To answer the question about the AE lock, yes you would have to fit your thumb between the camera and you forehead to press the button. Not that big a deal. If it bothered you, you could just meter like you would with an M6 ...

As for the low light focusing business, I've had no problems with the ZI so far. Like others have said, eye position is important to see the focusing patch.

 

[Marc-A.]

Like I said earlier, the covering on the ZI is not that nice. It does feel a bit gummy in warm weather.

You're right Andrew, and I don't like it either for the same reason.

i would try the m6 first, since that will sell for the same price you got it. the zi will go down in price about $400, so i wouldn't buy it new if i was just starting out.

You got a sensible point, Sam.