yanidel
Well-known
I still own both, use the RD1 99% of the time. The L1 IQ is great but except for its look, it has nothing of a rangefinder.
I went out the other night with the RD1 and tripod to take a few specific shots from the Eiffel Tower while lit in blue with the 12 stars (to mark the EU presidency of France). It was a mistake, I should have taken the L1 to avoid the vignetting and frame more easily (live view). Some shots still were good but the one I was after was a failure.
I went out the other night with the RD1 and tripod to take a few specific shots from the Eiffel Tower while lit in blue with the 12 stars (to mark the EU presidency of France). It was a mistake, I should have taken the L1 to avoid the vignetting and frame more easily (live view). Some shots still were good but the one I was after was a failure.
cam
the need for speed
good to know beforehand... do you know how long it will stay blue? (i might try to borrow my boyfriend's E-510
)yanidel
Well-known
I read that it will be for two months so it should go back to normal at end of August as it started late June. I believe the E-510 is the same platform as the L1 so you should be alright (not your boyfriend)good to know beforehand... do you know how long it will stay blue? (i might try to borrow my boyfriend's E-510
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I'm kind of curious about the actual size of this thing...if anyone has both cameras and can post a photo of the two side by side, that would be good.
yanidel
Well-known
I read that it will be for two months so it should go back to normal at end of August as it started late June. I believe the E-510 is the same platform as the L1 so you should be alright (not your boyfriend)
I have added a picture of the blue tower in my gallery so you can see what I refer to. RD1 +CV21mm on a tripod :
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=89062&ppuser=20969
yanidel
Well-known
Here is a comparison ... sorry for the quality I improvised a sofa as studio.
No real contest, RD1 wins size wise by far.
Attachments
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Ah, I see! So it isn't any longer or taller than a rangefinder, it's just much thicker.
I'm curious because I wouldn't mind having one of these as an extra digital body, to go with my pentax screwmount lenses.
I'm curious because I wouldn't mind having one of these as an extra digital body, to go with my pentax screwmount lenses.
JTK
Established
Given the same concerns, and since IMO M8 is a ripoff at the price in view of its relative fragility, and since it under-performs most current prosumer dslrs...I decided on K20D: Brilliant viewfinder (easy manual focus, excellent autofocus), weather/dust sealed, ultra rugged, spectacularly fine, tiny prime lenses (21/3.2, 35/2.8macro, 70/2.8 in my case...there's a 14/2.8 as well, for 21mm equivalent).
K20D offers 3200 with acceptable noise (like NPZ @800), 1600 with very little (beats Tri X @ 800). Infinitely better than 4/3 because of squinty finders (OLY E3 is the only exception).
I almost bought a GRDII , still might for special purposes...I've never seen an online example of GRDII photo that didn't entirely abandon shadow detail, even in flat light....high contrast with no shadow detail may be called for sometimes, but my own work swings the other way.
K20D APS sensor @ 14.6mp readily equals or beats most scanned film (Astia may be the exception)... packs smaller than the comparable Nikon (D300) and the comparable Canon (5D...I think K20D actually resolves more detail and it's more rugged).
If any of the Asian companies comes up with a rangefinder-like camera it will undoubtedly be better than M8, irrespective Leica lens options.
The only 4/3 with an acceptable (for me) viewfinder is Olympus E3. 4/3 would make more sense with an optical viewfinder.
K20D offers 3200 with acceptable noise (like NPZ @800), 1600 with very little (beats Tri X @ 800). Infinitely better than 4/3 because of squinty finders (OLY E3 is the only exception).
I almost bought a GRDII , still might for special purposes...I've never seen an online example of GRDII photo that didn't entirely abandon shadow detail, even in flat light....high contrast with no shadow detail may be called for sometimes, but my own work swings the other way.
K20D APS sensor @ 14.6mp readily equals or beats most scanned film (Astia may be the exception)... packs smaller than the comparable Nikon (D300) and the comparable Canon (5D...I think K20D actually resolves more detail and it's more rugged).
If any of the Asian companies comes up with a rangefinder-like camera it will undoubtedly be better than M8, irrespective Leica lens options.
The only 4/3 with an acceptable (for me) viewfinder is Olympus E3. 4/3 would make more sense with an optical viewfinder.
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squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
FYI, JTK, I like my K20D more every day. Great camera. I love the very judicious (and at low ISO, nonexistent) noise reduction, ergonomics, and friendliness to old lenses. The "green button" is awesome. And the shadow detail is superb. You think there can't possibly be any left, and there it is. I hugely appreciate the recommendation.
The DA35/2.8 is a unique lens, as well--never used anything quite like it.
The DA35/2.8 is a unique lens, as well--never used anything quite like it.
jarski
Veteran
by the time this thread was begun, its a shame Olympus still sticks with in 4/3 mount
LCT
ex-newbie
The little Pentax sounds cool indeed. Any pics with Zeiss lenses?
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
JTK
Established
Oly could make sense of 4/3 if it introduced a real viewfinder/rangefinder.
As to Pentax/Zeiss...I think that'd be a step backward. First of all, the Pentax primes are miraculous...
"Zeiss" isn't Zeiss as far as I know, and they certainly couldn't make a lens whose mechanics were better than Pentax primes..
Finally, "Zeiss" aren't autofocus as far as I know...Pentax autofocus is exceptionallly good EXCEPT in low/flat light, and then there's superb manual focus option with the primes.
The 21/3.2 (effectively "30mm") is remarkably fast and accurate in low light, the 70/2.8 (effectively "105) is almost as fast, but the 35/2.8 is a 1:1 macro and it's slow to autofocus unless there's some low light contrast.
I'm still early in the game with this, but I think the 21/3.2 is the best of the lot for grab shots. You can crop the daylights out of the 14.6mp file much better than you can with a film scan, assuming the width is sometimes a distraction.
K20D is far from small or light. It's roughly like a Canon F1, but it feels a bit lighter due to the grip. For me it's Leica-like because of the tiny prime lenses and the brilliant viewfinder. With a zoom it'd be as bad as any other dslr.
I've not weighted it, but it's probably about as heavy as the Panaleica. The only zoom on my horizon is the 50-135/2.8...$$
As to Pentax/Zeiss...I think that'd be a step backward. First of all, the Pentax primes are miraculous...
"Zeiss" isn't Zeiss as far as I know, and they certainly couldn't make a lens whose mechanics were better than Pentax primes..
Finally, "Zeiss" aren't autofocus as far as I know...Pentax autofocus is exceptionallly good EXCEPT in low/flat light, and then there's superb manual focus option with the primes.
The 21/3.2 (effectively "30mm") is remarkably fast and accurate in low light, the 70/2.8 (effectively "105) is almost as fast, but the 35/2.8 is a 1:1 macro and it's slow to autofocus unless there's some low light contrast.
I'm still early in the game with this, but I think the 21/3.2 is the best of the lot for grab shots. You can crop the daylights out of the 14.6mp file much better than you can with a film scan, assuming the width is sometimes a distraction.
K20D is far from small or light. It's roughly like a Canon F1, but it feels a bit lighter due to the grip. For me it's Leica-like because of the tiny prime lenses and the brilliant viewfinder. With a zoom it'd be as bad as any other dslr.
I've not weighted it, but it's probably about as heavy as the Panaleica. The only zoom on my horizon is the 50-135/2.8...$$
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
JTK, the K20D is way lighter than, say, the EOS 40D, and has a lower profile. And since the Pentax lenses are so small, you get great performance at about half the weight of the Canon equivalent. Well, maybe two thirds.
I agree the 35/2.8 focuses slowly, but I don't really give a hoot about AF speed for the stuff I shoot, so it's perfect. I really ought to get my hands on that 21mm pancake...but I wouldn't be able to use it with my film cameras.
Zooms are just too damned big for me. I'm an RF guy at heart and like a compact camera. I do have the Sigma 10-20mm though, because nothing else gets that wide...
I agree the 35/2.8 focuses slowly, but I don't really give a hoot about AF speed for the stuff I shoot, so it's perfect. I really ought to get my hands on that 21mm pancake...but I wouldn't be able to use it with my film cameras.
Zooms are just too damned big for me. I'm an RF guy at heart and like a compact camera. I do have the Sigma 10-20mm though, because nothing else gets that wide...
cmedin
Well-known
Lots of K20D users lately.
Mine's been with me for about a month now. Took it on vacation overseas and shot around 1k pictures.
While I don't argue against the primes being superb, some of the zooms are nothing to sneeze at either. Picked up a 16-45/4 to go with it and while f/4 isn't super fast, the lens is amazingly sharp across the board. Considering how cheap it can be had, it's an incredible deal for covering the wide-normal ranges.
Also, while it makes the camera a good bit bigger, the battery grip is great. Vertical controls and the extra battery capacity are nice to have!
Mine's been with me for about a month now. Took it on vacation overseas and shot around 1k pictures.
While I don't argue against the primes being superb, some of the zooms are nothing to sneeze at either. Picked up a 16-45/4 to go with it and while f/4 isn't super fast, the lens is amazingly sharp across the board. Considering how cheap it can be had, it's an incredible deal for covering the wide-normal ranges.
Also, while it makes the camera a good bit bigger, the battery grip is great. Vertical controls and the extra battery capacity are nice to have!