done with FSU RF's?

[mh2000]

After 12 years of frustration and hundreds of dollars spent on FSU rangefiders I finally bought a real Leica (IIIC) from KEH... wow, what a bargain it seems now... $325 and I unpack a beautiful working camera right out of the box (went through two bodies from fedka before Yuri said he couldn't completely guarantee a 3rd would be any better... ). What a waste it all was... oh well, *if* I had found the working FED I think it would have been much cooler than getting a snob Leica... and the rustic charm of the FSU bodies was very pleasing to me... but all the testing and repairing of FSU bodies just wore me out...

I guess the good news is that while I briefly had working FSU bodies (teasing me!) I determined that my Industar-22 is a fantastic little lens and will use it all the time on the Leica... my beautiful Jupiter-8... it has charm, so I will occasionally use it too... but wow, my new Color-Skopar 50/2.5 is amazing...



I do have my FED-2 working now and plan on an attempted Zorki-4 repair...

 

[dazedgonebye]

Well, we all go through this to one extent or another. I've had 2 good fed 2s (down to 1 now) and a Zorki 6 that's been great.
They're not my primary cameras, but I enjoy shooting them now and again.

Enjoy your Leica...snob.

 

[Roger Hicks]

After 12 years of frustration and hundreds of dollars spent on FSU rangefiders I finally bought a real Leica (IIIC) from KEH... wow, what a bargain it seems now... $325 and I unpack a beautiful working camera right out of the box (went through two bodies from fedka before Yuri said he couldn't completely guarantee a 3rd would be any better... ). What a waste it all was...

Well, yes. There's a good reason why Leicas cost more than FSU cameras. Actually there are lots of good reasons, but some of them vary from camera to camera (variable spacing, poor focus, rough wind on, tendency to jam...) while others are constant (better ergonomics, quieter shutter, roller cam-follower for lenses...)

Of course FSU cameras can be fun, or we wouldn't keep buying them. But the key word is CHEAP fun. The last one I bought was ten pounds ($20) with a non-functioning RF which took me maybe half an hour to fix. I used it for a while, then sold it to an impecunious friend for what I paid for it.

And, as you say (and I've said elsewhere) it's easy to fritter away money on 'bargains', when if you add together all you've spend, you could have bought a Leica or even a Leica outfit with the same money. The difference is that you'd have one or two good cameras and two or three good lenses, instead of 10 indifferent cameras and maybe one or two god lenses out of a dozen.

At this point, I know there'll be people who rush to say that their Jupiter is every bit the equal of a Summicron, but obviously, that's nonsense or Leica wouldn't be able to sell Summicrons new, and used Summicrons would cost the same as used Jupiters. Yes, a Jupiter can give lovely effects, and if you like them, great -- but on any objective criterion, such as sharpness, contrast, flare, MTF generally, it shows its age (a 1930s design, last revised, I believe, in the 1950s).

Cheers,

Roger

 

[payasam]

In use, I found my Zorki 1C no different from my Leica IIIc. The squinty finder problem was overcome by using accessory finders with both. However, I never really got attached to these cameras, probably because I had had decades of experience with SLRs and an M Leica.

 

[dee]

.... not the same difference from a good Kiev 2 , pre '56 , and a pre-war Contax though !
But those FSUs Leica Likes still dee-fy common sense - despite my lovely IIIc and IIIf !
dee

 

[Highway 61]

After 12 years of frustration and hundreds of dollars spent on FSU rangefinders I finally bought a real Leica (IIIC) from KEH... <SNIP> but all the testing and repairing of FSU bodies just wore me out...

You summed it up all.

Yet the snobbery mystery is elsewhere.

From the late 1950's up to the middle of the 1980's SU industrial plants were keeping manufacturing cameras that didn't work out of the factory to obbey the Soviet rules. That's somehow logical. Production was everything - products didn't have to work.
SU people were forced to buy those cameras that didn't work because the iron curtain didn't allow them (but for some happy-fews...) to get their hands on Japanese working cameras.

Then the SU got blown out, and the iron curtain fell down.

And people living outside what got called the FSU then got access to those not working FSU cameras - and frantically bought them from FSU sellers who had quickly settled eBay accounts.

Probably the best proof that the Soviet system is far superior to the capitalist one...

 

[Roger Hicks]

And people living outside what got called the FSU then got access to those not working FSU cameras - and frantically bought them from FSU sellers who had quickly settled eBay accounts.

You could always buy them in Europe. Most of the FSU cameras I ever owned were when the Soviet Union still existed.

It was widely reckoned in those days (on both sides of the Iron Curtain) that there were two levels of quality control: only those cameras that worked reasonably well were exported. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, this no longer applied and everyone had equal access to the good and the bad -- and there was always a lot more of the latter.

Add to this the fact that these cameras are now a couple of decades older than they were when the Soviet Union collapsed, with accompanying wear and tear on cameras that weren't all that well made to begin with, and it's small wonder I've seen a lot more REALLY BAD cameras from the Soviet Union in the last 20 years than I saw in the 60s and 70s. Mind you, 1950s and 1960s Canons are showing their age too...

Cheers,

R.

 

[wolves3012]

I've been collecting (and using!) FSUs for a couple of years and now have one of each major model. The majority were Ebay buys so I guess you could call them a random selection. Of the 20 or so I've bought, one had bad curtains, one was bought non-working and the rest all needed some degree of attention. Probably 4 or 5 worked fully (but still needed some tweaking, since I'm something of a perfectionist and tinkerer). All of them showed signs that they'd never been serviced.

I also decided to buy a Leica. It cost (body-only) more than twice the dearest FSU I'd bought. Yes, it's better made. Yes, it's been serviced and obviously better looked after. Yes, it's smoother and maybe a touch quieter. No, I won't be tinkering with it though!

The main "problem" with FSUs is that they were and are cheap. This means that no-one bothers to have them serviced (except us nutcases on RFF maybe) so it's no real surprise that 20-50 year-old cameras fail to work properly, especially when they weren't particularly well made to start with. On the other hand, I've yet to buy one that was actually broken, rather than just in dire need of a CLA. I'm sure they do get broken but my random sample suggests it's not that common.

For me, however, the fun is to fettle a non-working or poorly-working camera and end up with a fully working item that can take pretty good pictures. Undoubtedly there are others that have sharper lenses, faster lenses, more features etc but for the outlay an FSU is not far enough behind to matter for most situations.

Just my take on the breed...

 

[Highway 61]

For me, however, the fun is to fettle a non-working or poorly-working camera and end up with a fully working item that can take pretty good pictures. Undoubtedly there are others that have sharper lenses, faster lenses, more features etc but for the outlay an FSU is not far enough behind to matter for most situations.

I agree, and my previous post was to kid a bit about that much discussed matter.

Yet now that eBay allows us to grab high-end German or Japanese rangefinders from the 1950's and 1960's (not speaking of Leica, Leica isn't everything) for very reasonable prices, I just wonder where the point of fiddling with not working FSU cameras and badly collimated lenses is, but for a mechanical hobby close to miniature railroad modelling or something.

I have bought a very nice FED-2 and a late black J-8 for my son, this outfit costed me $45, it works perfectly, the lens is excellent, and at that price it's an outstanding school-camera for a kid wanting to learn the basics of film photography, not just wanting a P&S digital toy.

OTOH my mint Canon P with its three Canon RF primes (50/1.8, 35/1.8 and 100/3.5) costed me half the price of a Leica M2 without any lens.

And probably less than what many of people here have spent on not working FSU stuff.

My most expensive toys are my Nikon RFs and their lenses, okay they're not cheap, but they work superb, and my Nikkor-H-C 50/2 lens costed me $60 at auction.

The other question is, do we need tons of vintage film equipment to take good photos ? Does collecting RF gear make us better photographers ?

Spending less time at buying and collecting gear and more time at enjoying taking film photos (and for doing something else than just testing lenses) is heavily advisable as for the challenging issue.

 

[mh2000]

>>The other question is, do we need tons of vintage film equipment to take good photos ? Does collecting RF gear make us better photographers?

This is the question I ask all the time! I top Canon film SLR and a DSLR to go with it (prefer film though)... so why do I waste so much time fooling around with vintage film cameras? If nothing else, fooling with them keeps me *thinking* photography, even if the photos from them don't always work out... but worst case, even if I chalk it up to a total waste of time... most people watch more tv than me... so why can't I waste my time?

In the USA there are few FSU bargains... ebay and fedka, so you are talking ~$100 min. per camera. No, I didn't have to buy Leica for a small rangefinder, but the Canon's, Towers etc. were all about the same price so I figured that for future servicing and parts it would be the most hassle-free... and the new Voightlander and Zeiss RF's were too close to possible nice used Leica M's... and you can always sell a Leica...

Why the draw to a Barnack-style camera anyway? With a collapsible lens it fits in your pocket! ...well, I guess my Retina does too... ok, just (having fun) wasting time and money!

 

[gudlagoba]

Luck is a big factor in the FSU camera experience. I have three Kiev cameras. Two were in pretty good shape one was garbage. I still had to open all of them, to clean and fix light leaks. I guess if you buy an FSU camera and don't CLA it, you can't expect that much from it. OTOH there are FSU cameras that are unusable from the start and avoiding those is a matter of luck. I also think that the FSU camera doesn't suit everyone. I am a cheapskate with an interest in tinkering with my cameras. And the reason I love my FSU cameras is the low cost, excellent lenses and the fact that I can get in and fix anything that can go wrong with it.
I theory this means I can have a camera that will last a lifetime.

 

[Solinar]

I've kept a working FED 2 to let me sample a serving of borscht now and then. Seriously, it has kept me from buying a black-bodied Leica II.

 

[dee]

Now to stir a bit - I have no less than six Moscow photo [ that's '' Mika '' ]'' sliver black '' pretend Leicas , both Zorki 1 [ ?] and Zorki S ... my mika mouses !

Autism needs '' several same-ish '' , I don't know why .. maybe it reinforces the stimulus , makes it more '' real '' - but trips up over Cyrillic script so ....

All have superb new chrome , thick gloss black top plates , exquisite , if suspect faux German engraving ... and seemingly new curtains .

Here's the point , other than one lense with aperture out of alignment , [ which I failed to check at the time ] I have taken slides with each one , and the work beautifully .
Not bad for rejects ...

having said that a couple of ordinary OK finished Fed 1 '' Leicas '' were far from fine - so I invested in an Oleg moment , and they are now twins to my black and nickel Leica II s ... I don't know which pair I actually prefer ... which is wierd !

i guess , I feel like caretaker for the Leicas ... but if the Feds get scratched , I just paint them in , which makes more involvement somehow ...

But then I am officially crazeee - useful !

 

[Valkir1987]

Most FSU camera's I repaired where broken or non working because the previous repair was done in a wrong way. Some camera's where remade with parts from two or more camera's.
Overtensioned shutters, camera's full of sewing oil, wrong screws to fit the parts etc. Some even had 2 serial numbers!

A FSU camera can be a very good reliable one, if properly serviced and taken care of. With the exeption of some models. When buying a second hand, you get what you pay for most of the time.
If you like a camera to shoot, better buy a serviced one. I spend the time repairing these camera's because I have fun repairing them.

 

[Andrew Howes]

I suppose I have been lucky, with a perfect kiev, a good zorki 6, a 4 which needs an rf adjustment and a couple of dodgy 4ks which I think I can get going. I started with FSU cameras because I wanted to try rangefinder photography before buying something 'decent", but I kind of started liking the cheeky little commie cameras. The j8 lenses I have used have been lovely, and I think I might buy one more zorki or fed before getting that decent rf camera I have been dreaming of. Its no leica, but if you get a worker first up, its not bad bang for buck either.

 

[NathanJD]

Perhaps I haven’t been an FSU owner long enough to provide a valid response in this thread, but I have to say that ownership of these cameras is a very strange thing :

For very little money I have ended up with a FED-2 and Zorki-4K, both of which have been under the screwdriver, and both of which work well. What is odd is that despite the fact that there are bodies involved in these purchases, that’s pretty much by the by considering the fact that I have 2 LTM lenses now; only one of which needed any attention to get it back up to scratch (the relubing of an Industar 26), so in effect I have 2 50(ish)mm ‘standard’ vintage lenses that fit onto LTM bodies (and M bodies with the right adapter), and considering that I have working copies that focus correctly etc… I can only presume that optically the Industar-26 and Jupiter-8 are otherwise perfectly valid and perfectly usable alternatives to lenses 4 times the £25 I paid for the whole camera outfits???

To my mind there is no reason anyone looking for vintage lenses to use on their LTM cameras with enough mechanical competency to change a flat tyre on a car to count these lenses out (even if you think of them as ‘kit’ lenses) - there is enough literature out there to fix them up and the little money they cost has to be worth the punt.

Maybe it’s my cheapskate ways but I think of these 2 cameras as being some of my best purchases even if they aren’t mechanically perfect.

 

[ruben]

The Femme, The Money, and The Secret

The Femme, The Money, and The Secret

I will speak about the Kiev ladies.

They are very temperamental, to put in mild words the fact they are troublesome. Either you are lucky with Oleg's mediation, or you learn how to do the most basic yourself, which may eat a lot of your time but bring ensured rewards for so long as film exists

Without the above preconditions most of the chances are you are not going to get back the lady's affection. So they are. But wasn't there a reason for which we fell in love first of all, that somehow we forgot to mention at this thread?

Now there is the money equation. If you are looking for a side romance with a single camera and a single lens, falling in love with a Kiev will be very much an issue of luck, mutual understanding, and not so great demmands for so little money.

Not that Leicas are unworthy ladies, on the contrary. Furthermore, they belong to a league which is several times more expensive than that of the Kiev, but I assume you get true results for true money.

But if you are looking for a camera system, which includes two bodies, camera cases, three or four lenses, and the finders - Then kindly let me understand the economy logics of the Leica IIIc operation.

Because for such an expensive marriage, if we are speaking about a system, in which you will have to invest so much money, from the Kiev viewpoint - you have waited a lot of time.

Nevertheless, it is never late for a new love.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[wdeskiew]

Hi, this is my first post in this forum, though I,ve been a member for couple of months.
FSU vs 'classy' rangefinders: I think it has to do with your needs and what you expect from your camera. Whatever you say about the quality of FSU cameras and lenses they cover 90% of an average (like me) photographer needs. I use a zorki-4 and a kiev-4 with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses and this is enough for me.
If i was thinking about professional photography most certainly I'd put these cameras away.

 

[pinafore2]

I think it is the "Why ?"-thing all over again. Why film, why rangefinder, why FSU ?
It could all be so much easier with a digital P&S, so why do we bother ? - bacause it is FUN !

 

[nzeeman]

Hi, this is my first post in this forum, though I,ve been a member for couple of months.
FSU vs 'classy' rangefinders: I think it has to do with your needs and what you expect from your camera. Whatever you say about the quality of FSU cameras and lenses they cover 90% of an average (like me) photographer needs. I use a zorki-4 and a kiev-4 with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses and this is enough for me.
If i was thinking about professional photography most certainly I'd put these cameras away.

welcome to forum!!!!
i was using fsu for years, and only thing that i was missing was bigger viewfinder with 35mm framelines. everything else i love... i bought used m leica and it is great, but only thing thats better than fsu is that viewfinder. so i still use both fsu and leica.