kl122002
Kevin H.Y. Lui
Hi all,
I have myself a Leica last week. It is a IIIb w/ a clean scratchless pre-war Elmar 3.5/50, an ideal standard of LTM (basaic). I took a roll of film and notice tha RF is out of horizontial aligment. I adjusted it by myself. Then the slow speed mechanism is faile to operate and I clean it by myself, but the tension of the 2nd curtain is insufficient. I adjusted it but then the 2nd curtain won't release and slow speed mechanism function won't operate until I remove my finger from the shutter release buttom.
What a great diseater I am having. I sent the camera back to the seller and ask him for the repairing cost.
About my experience, it is difficult to keep my eye switching from VF and RF. Adjustment of f/ is not easy because the scale is having '9', '18' and something like that and the level location is hard to reach. The con is the silence shutter that I found only. The Elmar.....basically just same as elder Tessar.
I don't know whether if I give up this camera....
I have myself a Leica last week. It is a IIIb w/ a clean scratchless pre-war Elmar 3.5/50, an ideal standard of LTM (basaic). I took a roll of film and notice tha RF is out of horizontial aligment. I adjusted it by myself. Then the slow speed mechanism is faile to operate and I clean it by myself, but the tension of the 2nd curtain is insufficient. I adjusted it but then the 2nd curtain won't release and slow speed mechanism function won't operate until I remove my finger from the shutter release buttom.
What a great diseater I am having. I sent the camera back to the seller and ask him for the repairing cost.
About my experience, it is difficult to keep my eye switching from VF and RF. Adjustment of f/ is not easy because the scale is having '9', '18' and something like that and the level location is hard to reach. The con is the silence shutter that I found only. The Elmar.....basically just same as elder Tessar.
I don't know whether if I give up this camera....
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furcafe
Veteran
It's only a camera, & there are plenty of other thread mount Leicas out there. There's no reason to go be fixated on that particular camera or lens (Leitz made plenty of more ergonomic thread mount lenses). Also, if it's mainly the separate RF/VF windows that bugs you, you can always get 1 of the earlier bottom-loading Canon RFs & get a combined RF/VF.
vdonovan
Vince Donovan
Leica IIIs are great cameras but they are old cameras and they have their quirks. They were built like tanks but even tanks fail in battle eventually.
I had a IIIc for many years. I got used to the split finder, the quirky loading (I could trim the leader and load a roll in a dark club in about thirty seconds), the strange shutter speed intervals, the lack of an in-camera meter, the need for periodic adjustment and repair.
Then I got a Bessa R, which has none of those charming quirks. I liked it so much I sold my IIIc.
So it's all about what you are looking for, the kind of experience that you want. Want to work with a classic? Stick with the III. Just want to take pictures easily? Dump it.
I had a IIIc for many years. I got used to the split finder, the quirky loading (I could trim the leader and load a roll in a dark club in about thirty seconds), the strange shutter speed intervals, the lack of an in-camera meter, the need for periodic adjustment and repair.
Then I got a Bessa R, which has none of those charming quirks. I liked it so much I sold my IIIc.
So it's all about what you are looking for, the kind of experience that you want. Want to work with a classic? Stick with the III. Just want to take pictures easily? Dump it.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Don't get me wrong, but if I buy a vintage 1963 Porsche, a broken one, then I try to fix it but it still won't go. Does that mean Porsche makes bad quality cars?
As for switching viewfinders, try to find a SBOOI finder from leica or equivalent either FSU or CV. It'll make a whole difference in composing. You still have to use the RF window though, but I find it quite easy to get used to.
Try a Zorki 1, less money involved and less expectation
As for switching viewfinders, try to find a SBOOI finder from leica or equivalent either FSU or CV. It'll make a whole difference in composing. You still have to use the RF window though, but I find it quite easy to get used to.
Try a Zorki 1, less money involved and less expectation
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Adjusting the camera yourself, when you don't really know what you're doing, is a recipe for disaster -- and without wishing to be rude, if you really did know what you were doing, it should have worked after the first 'repair'. If I had sold it to you, I'd say that your playing around with it absolved me of all responsibility, assuming you're not an experienced camera repair man.
I'd also agree that you're looking at a camera that is well over half a century old and may have been the victim of other amateur 'repairs'. Either get it looked at by someone who knows what they're doing, in which case they may be able to get it working again, or go for something either modern or properly maintained.
Sorry to be brutal but that's almost 40 years of Leica user experience talking, with Leicas dating back to the late 20s.
Cheers,
R.
I'd also agree that you're looking at a camera that is well over half a century old and may have been the victim of other amateur 'repairs'. Either get it looked at by someone who knows what they're doing, in which case they may be able to get it working again, or go for something either modern or properly maintained.
Sorry to be brutal but that's almost 40 years of Leica user experience talking, with Leicas dating back to the late 20s.
Cheers,
R.
Charles Woodhouse
Collector,User,Repairer.
A service by a competent repairer should solve all these problems, but somtimes major surgery is necessary, like new curtains. Prewar Leitz material was excellent, but depending on what conditions the camera was subjected to, the curtains may have stiffened and thickened.
And you can't blame a seller for not knowing that, especially with a seventy year old camera.
And the last thing you should do when working on an old camera is to fiddle with the curtain tensions. CLA means exactly that. Clean, Lubricate and Adjust in that order, but it should start with D for Dismantle.
And you can't blame a seller for not knowing that, especially with a seventy year old camera.
And the last thing you should do when working on an old camera is to fiddle with the curtain tensions. CLA means exactly that. Clean, Lubricate and Adjust in that order, but it should start with D for Dismantle.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Kevin, that's an heirloom model of the Leica III series that you mucked with the curtain adjustment. I agree of with Roger - that if you mucked around curtain adjustment - it is non-returnable.
The IIIb has a better build and materials than the post IIIc and some early IIIf Leicas. It has to say the least all the ergonomic conveniences of a early 1930's RF camera - which is to say - it won't be everyone's cup of tea.
In the probable case that the camera has never been CLA'd since it left Leitz Wetzlar back in 1938 or 1939, the original lubricants have dried out and may have left a gummy residue. In any case, do not fire the shutter while its moveable components are dry. Keep in mind that Leitz probably used something as high-tech as whale oil 70 years ago.
A trained Leica technician worth his salt can clean out the old lubricant from critical components, lubricant where necessary with modern lubricants and adjust the curtains with a shutter tester. The camera has to be disassembled to do this. Do not do-it-yourself.
Send it to a qualified tech - If you are in the US - try Youxin Ye - wye7@yahoo.com
The IIIb has a better build and materials than the post IIIc and some early IIIf Leicas. It has to say the least all the ergonomic conveniences of a early 1930's RF camera - which is to say - it won't be everyone's cup of tea.
In the probable case that the camera has never been CLA'd since it left Leitz Wetzlar back in 1938 or 1939, the original lubricants have dried out and may have left a gummy residue. In any case, do not fire the shutter while its moveable components are dry. Keep in mind that Leitz probably used something as high-tech as whale oil 70 years ago.
A trained Leica technician worth his salt can clean out the old lubricant from critical components, lubricant where necessary with modern lubricants and adjust the curtains with a shutter tester. The camera has to be disassembled to do this. Do not do-it-yourself.
Send it to a qualified tech - If you are in the US - try Youxin Ye - wye7@yahoo.com
dll927
Well-known
When I see a thread like this one, I wonder how Henry C-B got by. Well OK, his Leicas were newer in his day and he probably didn't complain about their "foibles", since what was available then was state-of-the-art then. Using such a camera now probably means most of us are too spoiled by current models. The original classic Exaktas were almost one continuous "foible", but people used them. We've come a long way.
They say that anyone who tries to act as his own lawyer has a fool for a client. Dare I say that someone who tries to 'repair' his own cameras probably falls into the same category? I agree that it would absolve the seller of any responsibility. It's sure a great way to void a warranty, too. (Not that an LTM Leica would still have a warranty!!)
Loading a Leica is a learning curve. If one can do it in a dark room in 30 seconds, he won't have to ask the old question about how to get to Carnegie Hall -- practice!!
They say that anyone who tries to act as his own lawyer has a fool for a client. Dare I say that someone who tries to 'repair' his own cameras probably falls into the same category? I agree that it would absolve the seller of any responsibility. It's sure a great way to void a warranty, too. (Not that an LTM Leica would still have a warranty!!)
Loading a Leica is a learning curve. If one can do it in a dark room in 30 seconds, he won't have to ask the old question about how to get to Carnegie Hall -- practice!!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
(Numbers added for clarity)
(1) Only 'almost'? "It is not so much a camera with some eccentric features built in, as a collection of eccentric features with a camera hiding somewhere behind them." -- from (http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/ps collect varex.html)
(2) Cheers,
Roger W. Hicks, LL.B., F.R.S.A.
jarski
Veteran
thank you for the information. so now I finally know true reason why Japanese camera industry gained its position during 1960's. it wasnt SLR. it was Exakta
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Yes, but to adjust the tension for the second curtain before cleaning and lubrication is not the wise path even for a FED.
Keep in mind that for the top shutter speed to work properly at ~1/1000th of second - the second shutter curtain must trail the first curtain by a mere 1 mm - as both travel across the film plane. A shutter speed test apparatus is the preferred tool for this adjustment. The Barnack's body shell needs to be removed for most shutter speed testers to be fully utilized.
For the amateur trial and error method to be successful, one can use an old B/W television set or a record player with a rotating target mounted to the platter - then shoot film at all of the various shutter speeds above 1/20th - 1/30th of a second. - Don't ask me how I know. -
Adjusting the vertical and horizontal RF alignment is one thing, but mucking with the curtain tension that was probably properly adjusted when the lubricants were new is not a good plan.
Speaking of tools - there is a very nice solid copper vise sold that allows one to remove the collar in front of the RF window without damaging the chrome. There is even a tool that specifically fit the wedged lens of the RF that leaves no markings on the brass collar.
Keep in mind that for the top shutter speed to work properly at ~1/1000th of second - the second shutter curtain must trail the first curtain by a mere 1 mm - as both travel across the film plane. A shutter speed test apparatus is the preferred tool for this adjustment. The Barnack's body shell needs to be removed for most shutter speed testers to be fully utilized.
For the amateur trial and error method to be successful, one can use an old B/W television set or a record player with a rotating target mounted to the platter - then shoot film at all of the various shutter speeds above 1/20th - 1/30th of a second. - Don't ask me how I know.
-Adjusting the vertical and horizontal RF alignment is one thing, but mucking with the curtain tension that was probably properly adjusted when the lubricants were new is not a good plan.
Speaking of tools - there is a very nice solid copper vise sold that allows one to remove the collar in front of the RF window without damaging the chrome. There is even a tool that specifically fit the wedged lens of the RF that leaves no markings on the brass collar.
TheHub
Well-known
I bought a IIIf last year. Even though I have had some trouble with it (even now) it is one of my favorite cameras. I would never sell it. The Barnack Leicas are truly beautiful cameras.
kl122002
Kevin H.Y. Lui
I sent it out, but the repair cost is still unknown. I am worried about it.
Is there any one know how much would that be usually?
Is there any one know how much would that be usually?
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Here in the USA - a CLA can run from less than $100 with Youxin Ye to slightly over $200 - if sent to a high end camera tech like DAG.
colyn
ישו משיח
If I were the seller I would have refused to refund your money since you tried to fix the camera yourself. In other words the camera would not have been returned to me in "as shipped " condition.
You should have returned the camera without doing any fixes..
You should have returned the camera without doing any fixes..
colyn
ישו משיח
"What a great diseater I am having. I sent the camera back to the seller and ask him for the repairing cost."
See the above quote...
While he did not ask for a refund he expects the seller to pay for repair AFTER he attempted to repair it himself..
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Yep, but that's all water under the bridge now. The important thing is that the IIIb is on its way to be looked over by an experienced tech.