Handling the 75mm Summilux - Question?

dcsang

dcsang

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I recently (about a month ago I'd say) acquired a very very very nice 75mm Summilux (8 bit encoded and adjusted by DAG) from Cindy Flood.

The lens is stunning . . . . . . . when I can nail the focus @ f1.4.
It's awesome at f2.0 and beyond.

That said, I'm finding I'm having difficulty in its handling on the M8 (haven't tried on the M7 yet). My "keepers" at f1.4 are few and far between unless I have a steady subject. I'm finding lots of out of focus shots when at f1.4 - it looks like the focus is "no where" in the image (which is perfectly possible if the subject moved or I swayed). Not so much at f2.0 (for obvious reasons) and I know that it's user (i.e. me) error and not the lens but that said.. I will quote what Dante Stella wrote recently in his ad for his Summilux:
Dante Stella said:
I am not responsible for the design constraints of 75mm f/1.4 lenses. Focus shift is very real. As intended by Leica (and as this lens is calibrated for the M8), they have a very, very slight (and almost impalpable) front focus at f/1.4 and as you stop down, focus shifts backward but within the depth of field. You can make a special adjustment for perfect focus at f/1.4, but then you have back focus until f/8. I did not choose this option. You might have DAG do this for you on your own time (and money) – and live with the results. I opted for the way Mandler intended it – balanced performance all around. Remember, most setting where you will use this lens will be high contrast to begin with.
Click to expand...

So, with that said, I was wondering two things:
1) if anyone has any tips that potentially could help with the handling of this lens at f1.4?
2) I may actually potentially sell this lens (or trade for equal Summicron along with some $$$ to me) - but I'm on the fence at this time... could anyone convince me one way or the other?

Outside of the amount of keepers, I agree that this lens is real gem - but for my uses (weddings mainly) - I kind of need more keepers than fewer 🙂

Cheers,
Dave
 
1) 1.25 magnifier (you probably thought of this already)
2) what would you gain by using the cron? You can use the lux at f2 the same way as you would with the cron. Most likely the amount of keepers at f2 is the same with both the cron and the lux.

For wedding shots I'd guess the signature of the lux may be an advantage compared to the cron. Of course, matter of taste as always.
 
Back when I had one of these, I found that a 1.25 magnifier was an absolute necessity.
With it on, I generally hit what i was aiming at, even at 1.4.
Such a beautiful lens.
If I used my M more for telephoto work, I would have kept mine.
 
Ya.. I should have mentioned - already got and use the 1.25x mag on the M8 (and recently purchased another used one for the M7) 😀

Hmmmm.. this is a predicament.. 🙂

Dave
 
Use it more on the M7 (with magnifier as well).

And on the M8, maybe use it at f2 up close and wide open only at a bit more conservative distances (say 1.5m and up) ? Plus you have the luxury to be able to focus bracket and chimp 🙂

DOF on the M8 is even smaller than on film ....

Note that the magnifier is only one part of the equation, the other is the camera and technique.
Don't focus back and forth until you think you're OK. Prefocus and move.

Cheers,

Roland.
 
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ferider said:
Use it more on the M7 (with magnifier as well).

And on the M8, maybe use it at f2 up close and wide open only at a bit more conservative distances (say 1.5m and up) ? Plus you have the luxury to be able to focus bracket and chimp 🙂

DOF on the M8 is even smaller than on film ....

Note that the magnifier is only one part of the equation, the other is the camera and technique.
Don't focus back and forth until you think you're OK. Prefocus and move.

Cheers,

Roland.
Click to expand...

Ahhh... that second set of information is very good Roland - thanks for that - I do tend to do the back and forth focusing thing rather than prefocusing and moving.

I also forget that the DOF is going to be shallower on the M8.

Muchly appreciated,
Dave
 
Dave -- i only lust after this lens, not use, so i can't help you... i have been eagerly awaiting your thoughts and photos... now i understand the delay. good luck!
 
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dcsang said:
So, with that said, I was wondering two things:
1) if anyone has any tips that potentially could help with the handling of this lens at f1.4?
2) I may actually potentially sell this lens (or trade for equal Summicron along with some $$$ to me) - but I'm on the fence at this time... could anyone convince me one way or the other?
Click to expand...

1) Like somebody already said, a 1.25x magnifier will help a lot.

2) I have a 90mm f/2 Summicron. Has virtually the same DOF at 1m and f/2 as the 75 Summilux at 0.7m and f/1.4 Squeaky clean. Pre-asph version. More compact, a bit lighter (than the 75 Summilux)

How much $$$ diff? 😀
 
Gabriel M.A. said:
I have a 90mm f/2 Summicron. Has virtually the same DOF at 1m and f/2 as the 75 Summilux at 0.7m and f/1.4 Squeaky clean. Pre-asph version. More compact, a bit lighter (than the 75 Summilux).
Click to expand...
I also have the pre-ASPH 90, which has a signature not entirely unlike the 75/1.4. Previously had the ASPH 90, which wasn't so good close-up. I also ended up with the 75/2 ASPH because the close-up performance wide open is brilliant (floating elements I guess) and it is small enough to use as a carry round lens. The 75/2 signature is not harsh despite what you may read on the internet - a lens to consider if you become disenchanted with the 75/1.4. However good luck finding one used - people are holding on to them, and for good reason.
 
Dave,
I found that I liked putting two magnifiers on the M8 (piggyback) when I knew I would be using this lens a lot.
For weddings, I usually used f/2 and got a very high hit rate. I've read that the DOF at f/1.4 is actually narrower than the Noctilux at f/1.
Focus and lean in and out...Roland had that right.
Some people like putting the Steer from Leica Goodies on the 75 lux to make the throw a little easier to handle (but it looks ugly😎).
I had both the 75 lux and the 75 cron at the same time for a while. I kept the lux because you can have the killer look at f/1.4 or a sharp lens if you stop down. It is the best of both worlds. The downside is the size and weight of the lux.
Practice makes perfect! 🙄...well it will help.
 
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Dave:

Don't sell it. In my case, I was struggling with focusing the lens faster and after buying a STEER from Leicagoodies, the majority of my focusing issues are gone.

Cheers,
 
Shots like this (not the greatest) are no problem - subject is stable, not moving etc. -
L9990960.jpg


Where someone is moving, I sometimes get lucky:
L9990776.jpg


So, I think I'm going to try what Roland and Cindy and the others have stated. I'm willing to give the lens a chance - I'm not worried too much by the focus throw - I've noted that at the distances I want to work with, the throw is minimal. I already have 1 1.25x magnifier for each of my M's so I can, if necessary, slap two on together.

Thanks,
Dave

ETA: Oh.. and BTW, I realize that you can't really see where the focus point is on either of those photos - viewing a web size is sort of pointless sometimes 😀
 
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You might be shooting too close. An M rangefinder can't focus reliably and accurately with anything at closer than 1m (it's not even calibrated to do so). A 75mm Summilux really taxes the system (ever notice that the entire RF cam is contoured?), and it was designed as a 75mm FOV on a 35mm frame. With the crop factor of an M8, you are well advised to back up to at least 1.3m (4 feet) to put this lens back into what it was designed to do. On top of that, the aberrations with a 75 Summilux are much more pronounced at very close range.

Try this for focusing. If your lens has been recollimated for the M8, focus normally at f/1.4. When stopping down, the focus will shift but the focused subject will fall within the DOF (stopped down, it looks like 15% DOF in front, 85% in back of the focused subject). You can manipulate this back into something roughly like the normal 33%/67% split by doing this: either (a) focus from near to far and stop as soon as the image arguably looks lined up or (b) focus from far to near, focus through the range where the patch lines up and then stop right before the double image "breaks."

If your lens has not been recollimated for the M8, you will need to use technique (a) or (b) at all apertures, because the lens will pretty much back focus all the time. Alternatively, you can tweak the RF to move the focus point (very, very, very frustrating), but to make it work across all apertures, you will need to move that focus point so far forward that at f/1.4 DOF will be even thinner than normal. That, and your slower, less demanding lenses will front-focus.

This lens just requires a hell of a lot of practice.

I don't think that magnifiers are of much value in making this lens easier if you have good eyesight or good correction. I think one of the problems with focusing this lens is the fact that Leica rangefinders can have "slack," or "persistence," i.e., the RF patch looks like it is lined up across a small range of distances rather than a single point. A long-honored technique for avoiding this is the "lean-in, lean-out" method someone mentioned above (that technique is as old as f/1.4 lenses) or the "take up the slack" method I have described here.
 
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Thanks Dante.

That is appreciated and helps me understand where (or how) I may be going wrong with the lens.

It's Cindy's lens and I know that she had it sent to DAG and she's pretty good with her gear but I can't remember if it's been recollimated or not - it's coded for the M8 but don't know if it's recollimated. That said, I note, if anything, more front focus than back focus, but I also note that it can be "bang on" when I got it right - so I know it's my technique and not the lens (which is what I figured) 😀

Thanks again and I'll keep trying 🙂

Cheers,
Dave
 
dcsang said:
I recently (about a month ago I'd say) acquired a very very very nice 75mm Summilux (8 bit encoded and adjusted by DAG) from Cindy Flood.

The lens is stunning . . . . . . . when I can nail the focus @ f1.4.
It's awesome at f2.0 and beyond.

...
Click to expand...

Dave, what are the 2 extra bit in your coding for? 😀

Seriously, the 75 Lux is a great lens - focus is tough for moving subjects wide open or thereabouts, but not as tough after you use it for a few days. I find it snapping in focus pretty easily, without magnifiers or anything, and IQ is definitely stunning IMHO. Just give yourself a little time to get used to it, and you would immediately give up to the selling idea 😀
 
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