itf
itchy trigger finger
I'm looking for advice on a 6x9 folder to compliment my 35mm camera, but wouldn't know where to start looking. Lens length and speed aren't that important, though I'd prefer wider and faster. Thanks for any info and model names.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'd definitely be waiting to see what happens about the supposed new Fuji ... if it's reasonably priced and does actually happen I'll be in the que! 
itf
itchy trigger finger
I'm afraid my budget probably wouldn't stretch that far, I'm looking for old time prices on old time cameras.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Old time ailments also ... I have a Super Ikonta 6x4.5 and its a pain. Nice camera and very nice lens but the viewfinder is very tired and doesn't align that well with the lens ... as for the Mosva 6x9 I bought ... Hmmmm!
Actually the only folder I have that I really like is my Iskra ... it's a brilliant camera ... but not 6x9 of course!
oftheherd
Veteran
I have a Zeiss Ikon 6x9 that I like. Mine is non RF. You can find 6x9 in range finder versions. They will be larger, cost more, and be more heavy. My Zeiss Ikon is light and easy to store or carry. Getting a good Moskva seems to be more of a challenge than 35mm FSU, but a good one would be nice. It is also large and heavy.
Have you thought about whether or not you want RF or non-RF?
Have you thought about whether or not you want RF or non-RF?
Krosya
Konicaze
I'd say - check some old threads - many ideas there. But as far as what I prefer - Welta Weltur with couples RF - if you can find one:
oftheherd
Veteran
Krosya - that sure looks nice! As you know, I share you respect for Weltas.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
If I was starting out from scratch all over - my advice is buy a 6x9 folder as you would another lens - because at the end of the day, the lens is the most important feature on these cameras.
My preference would be to have a RF apparatus built into the camera as well.
Best of the easy to stow 6x9 folders is the Zeiss Ikon Mess-Ikonta. Simple, well-built, uncomplicated-uncoupled RF and a gorgeous lens, either a Novar or Tessar.
http://www.elekm.net/pages/cameras/ikonta524-2.htm
The same camera without an RF, therefore scale focusing came was called an Ikonta C - the best of which were the immediate post-war 521/2, but there is a later 523/2 version of the camera, which is styled like the Mess-Ikonta.
The Ikonta C had an East German version called the Ercona and Ercona II. If you ever see the latter in good condition for under $150 USD - buy it. Remember - it is the lens that makes you want to use these cameras again and again unless the camera's ergonomics really get in the way.
I've left out my Agfa Records, because everyone of them need bellows and servicing.
The post-war Voigtlander Bessa with a Skopar is good, but it just isn't built as well the Ikontas. Now a Bessa II is worth having - but that may exceed the current budget limitations. I'm keeping mine only because the Heliar.
My preference would be to have a RF apparatus built into the camera as well.
Best of the easy to stow 6x9 folders is the Zeiss Ikon Mess-Ikonta. Simple, well-built, uncomplicated-uncoupled RF and a gorgeous lens, either a Novar or Tessar.
http://www.elekm.net/pages/cameras/ikonta524-2.htm
The same camera without an RF, therefore scale focusing came was called an Ikonta C - the best of which were the immediate post-war 521/2, but there is a later 523/2 version of the camera, which is styled like the Mess-Ikonta.
The Ikonta C had an East German version called the Ercona and Ercona II. If you ever see the latter in good condition for under $150 USD - buy it. Remember - it is the lens that makes you want to use these cameras again and again unless the camera's ergonomics really get in the way.
I've left out my Agfa Records, because everyone of them need bellows and servicing.
The post-war Voigtlander Bessa with a Skopar is good, but it just isn't built as well the Ikontas. Now a Bessa II is worth having - but that may exceed the current budget limitations. I'm keeping mine only because the Heliar.
Nick De Marco
Well-known
I picked up a Zeiss Ikon Nettar 6x9 folder in Brighton at the weekend. Comes with a Novar f4.5 105mm lens, which seems throught the non coupled rangefinder to be pretty wide on 6x9. I already had my two favourite 6x7s on me, the mamiya 7 and the Plaubel Makina (the latter of which is a folder) but I could not resist buying this as it was 6x9 and very cheap. The shop had it on sae for £80, I got them down to £65. Can really go wrong at that price. I have only put one roll through it so far to test it, and should have the results at the weekend so I will try and post a couple.
Nick
Nick
RObert Budding
D'oh!
I picked up a nice Zeiss Ercona II (East German) a while back. Scale focus, and a bitingly sharp lens. You could add an auxiliary rangefinder, if needed. Great camera for less than $100.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
itf
itchy trigger finger
Thanks everyone for all the recommendations! I find looking at gear daunting, so much to sift through and very few options for looking at things in person. I'll check that one above.
As far as rangefinder or not, I'm not too attached to having a rangefinder; the idea is that this will be used for larger overall scenes, so focus is not so critical, the 35mm will be used for delving in more. Though I have a feeling I might end up using it for some closer scenes too.
What are the hopes of getting a reasonably reliable camera of this sort of vintage? It's not overly important as it won't be my main camera, but it would be nice if it wasn't too unreliable.
As far as rangefinder or not, I'm not too attached to having a rangefinder; the idea is that this will be used for larger overall scenes, so focus is not so critical, the 35mm will be used for delving in more. Though I have a feeling I might end up using it for some closer scenes too.
What are the hopes of getting a reasonably reliable camera of this sort of vintage? It's not overly important as it won't be my main camera, but it would be nice if it wasn't too unreliable.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Argenticien
Dave
It sounds like for dipping a toe in the format this way, you'd do fine with a non-RF folder. Given your "I have a feeling I might" clause, however, it could be useful to get one modern enough that it has an accessory shoe. (Or a non-collector-value older one that you don't mind defacing by fusing on an accessory shoe!) Then if you do find yourself increasingly doing closer scenes, you could attach an accessory RF for that use. (I went with a coupled RF, but that's because I am too impatient to do the non-coupled, transfer to focusing ring, type of thing.)
--Dave
ZeissFan
Veteran
I would humbly suggest a Zeiss Ikon 520/2.
Although it's a zone-focus camera and most likely will need to be serviced, it's an excellent camera. This particular camera has a Tessar, which takes a back seat to no one. It's from 1937. Check out the Zoomify images.
I've used this with b/w, color print and color slide film, and it never fails to impress.
The Agfas made good cameras, as did Voigtlander, although I think Voigtlanders currently are overpiced. If you don't mind respooling 120 onto 620 spools, Kodak made some decent 6x9 folding I'm not as familiar with others, but that Welta looks really sweet.
Regarding wide-angle lenses, you would need to consider a different category of cameras, as nearly all traditional folding cameras have fixed lenses for a number of reasons.
The folding camera is a fun venture and might lead you down a path that you don't expect but will be fulfilling nonetheless.
Although it's a zone-focus camera and most likely will need to be serviced, it's an excellent camera. This particular camera has a Tessar, which takes a back seat to no one. It's from 1937. Check out the Zoomify images.
I've used this with b/w, color print and color slide film, and it never fails to impress.
The Agfas made good cameras, as did Voigtlander, although I think Voigtlanders currently are overpiced. If you don't mind respooling 120 onto 620 spools, Kodak made some decent 6x9 folding I'm not as familiar with others, but that Welta looks really sweet.
Regarding wide-angle lenses, you would need to consider a different category of cameras, as nearly all traditional folding cameras have fixed lenses for a number of reasons.
The folding camera is a fun venture and might lead you down a path that you don't expect but will be fulfilling nonetheless.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have a Moskva 5 6x9 folder. It has a sharp lens and it is cheap to get.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Yes, a Moskva-5 that is working properly (not so hard to find, but best to buy one that's been serviced) is a very nice camera.
eric mac
Established
Voigtander
Voigtander
Go for a Voigtlander Bessa II with a Skopar lens if you can afford it. It comes in 3 different lens configuations, but the heliar and Apo Lanthar are for collectors.
I just completed a Yellowstone tour with a Zeiss 645 folder which got me a lot of strange looks. The pictures came out gorgeous though.
Eric
Voigtander
Go for a Voigtlander Bessa II with a Skopar lens if you can afford it. It comes in 3 different lens configuations, but the heliar and Apo Lanthar are for collectors.
I just completed a Yellowstone tour with a Zeiss 645 folder which got me a lot of strange looks. The pictures came out gorgeous though.
Eric
monemmer
Established
In my experience, folders that have a Tessar, Skopar, or Solinar lens (four element) are significantly more expensive than folders with three element lenses. Add a built in, maybe even coupled rangefinder and you're looking at several hundred dollars.
For starters, I would skip the rangefinder and perhaps look at Kodak folders. There are a few gems that have outstanding four element lenses, however, the bellows can be a problem. An additional complication is the fact that the Kodak folders require 620 film, which is the same as 120, but with a different spool. There are plenty of tutorials out there that explain how to re-spool 120 onto a 620 spool. The Kodak folder to look for is the Kodak Monitor Six-20 with the Special Anastigmat lens (you can identify this one by the depth of field scale wheel on the top, the Monitors with lesser lenses do not have this depth of field scale). For the price of a little bit of added hassle (respooling, no rangefinder) you get outstandidng optics on a portable 6x9 folder on the cheap (I paid about $40 each for my two Monitors wich are in excellent condition). This camera even has a frame counter with automatic film stop when you wind.
Here are some flickr photo sets with photos taken with my Monitors. First the one with the uncoated lens:
http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/sets/72157603327442751/
And this is the one with the coated lens:
http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/sets/72157603707670777/
Here's an example that I took with my Monitor with uncoated Special Anastigmat lens:
(http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/2072884418/in/set-72157603327442751)
- Markus
For starters, I would skip the rangefinder and perhaps look at Kodak folders. There are a few gems that have outstanding four element lenses, however, the bellows can be a problem. An additional complication is the fact that the Kodak folders require 620 film, which is the same as 120, but with a different spool. There are plenty of tutorials out there that explain how to re-spool 120 onto a 620 spool. The Kodak folder to look for is the Kodak Monitor Six-20 with the Special Anastigmat lens (you can identify this one by the depth of field scale wheel on the top, the Monitors with lesser lenses do not have this depth of field scale). For the price of a little bit of added hassle (respooling, no rangefinder) you get outstandidng optics on a portable 6x9 folder on the cheap (I paid about $40 each for my two Monitors wich are in excellent condition). This camera even has a frame counter with automatic film stop when you wind.
Here are some flickr photo sets with photos taken with my Monitors. First the one with the uncoated lens:
http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/sets/72157603327442751/
And this is the one with the coated lens:
http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/sets/72157603707670777/
Here's an example that I took with my Monitor with uncoated Special Anastigmat lens:
(http://flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/2072884418/in/set-72157603327442751)
- Markus
mbisc
Silver Halide User
Assuming you want to use this 6x9 folder semi-seriously, here are a couple of considerations:
- go for a coupled rangerfinder (the depth of field of a ~100 mm lens is pretty limited, so unless you have a lot of experience with zone focussing, don't try to be a hero )
- avoid front cell focussing (the cause fairly significant degradation of optical quality outside the range they are optimized for -- the 6x9 folders were the P&S of their day, so they are not optimized for infinity)
The last point AFAIK excludes (very unfortunately) all of the Zeiss Ikon folders from consideration. My suggestion for a great 6x9 folder is therefore the Voigtlander Bessa II (as someone else already did).
IMHO, cameras (other than the pure collectors items, e.g. the Bessas with Heliar lens) are too inexpensive these days to not get the "best."
- go for a coupled rangerfinder (the depth of field of a ~100 mm lens is pretty limited, so unless you have a lot of experience with zone focussing, don't try to be a hero
)- avoid front cell focussing (the cause fairly significant degradation of optical quality outside the range they are optimized for -- the 6x9 folders were the P&S of their day, so they are not optimized for infinity)
The last point AFAIK excludes (very unfortunately) all of the Zeiss Ikon folders from consideration. My suggestion for a great 6x9 folder is therefore the Voigtlander Bessa II (as someone else already did).
IMHO, cameras (other than the pure collectors items, e.g. the Bessas with Heliar lens) are too inexpensive these days to not get the "best."