FallisPhoto
Veteran
Just to throw in my two cents, seeing as how we've somehow gotten into 6x9 press cameras, here's my Baby Speed Graphic:
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mbisc
Silver Halide User
She's a beauty -- by the way, does anyone know why people love the Speed Graphics so much more than the Crown Graphics. The only real difference are the focal plane shutter and the higher weight/size. Since most of the lenses are (leaf-)shuttered anyway, why bother dealing with the higher weight/size?
By the way, just for the record, I have and love my Crown Graphic 23 (and have matching Kodak 80, 101 & 127 lenses, as well as a Schneider 65)...
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literiter
Well-known
She's a beauty -- by the way, does anyone know why people loke the Speed Graphics so much more than the Crown Graphics. The only real difference are the focal plane shutter and the higher weight/size. Since most of the lenses are (leaf-)shuttered anyway, why bother dealing with the higher weight/size?
By the way, just for the record, I have and love my Crown Graphic 23 (and have matching Kodak 80, 101 & 127 lenses, as well as a Schneider 65)...
The newspaper business primarily used "Speed Graphics" because of the possibility of using the focal plane shutter. This feature, in my experience was seldom used, if ever. I never used it. I was always afraid I'd leave the shutter closed, which I did on occasion.
The "Crown Graphics" were a little more rare, but in my opinion a far better deal if you weren't going to use the focal plane shutter.
Notwithstanding: The "Speed Graphic" full sized or baby was one sexy camera. All them knobs and dials whew! I will attempt to get another, one day.
-Don't forget the Busch Pressman, in both sizes as well.
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chippy
foo was here
nice baby Fphoto...
its still a folder though isnt it...perhaps just made famous as a press camera becuae the press used it so much eh?
$40 bucks sheeze..wish i could say that! (seems to be getting worse too just lately--have you noticed the US dollar is getting stronger...either that or the Aussie $ is getting weaker) i wouldnt mind the K1000 tho..i always wanted one of them when i was a kid (wanted the Olypus OM1n more and finely got it years later) and had to settle for the Ricoh KR5 which by all accounts is exactly the same camera barring the higher shutter speed.
... just send her on down she'll be amongst friends hehe
i've missed out on few lately--just not prepared to pay the cost--recently there was a old welta 9x12 plate camera here in Oz that i wanted but it went for something like $150 !!! should of been $45-50 tops--someone with 5 feedback bought it and bid like crazy through the whole thing--are they going to regret it down the track
ZF i have to admit this is much how thought as well so as a result my nich is the Welta... but every now and again.......i end up with an entire different range go figure!
its still a folder though isnt it...perhaps just made famous as a press camera becuae the press used it so much eh?
$40 bucks sheeze..wish i could say that! (seems to be getting worse too just lately--have you noticed the US dollar is getting stronger...either that or the Aussie $ is getting weaker) i wouldnt mind the K1000 tho..i always wanted one of them when i was a kid (wanted the Olypus OM1n more and finely got it years later) and had to settle for the Ricoh KR5 which by all accounts is exactly the same camera barring the higher shutter speed.
i know what to do with the poor unloved Welta Sport that has the Spezial-Aplanet
... just send her on down she'll be amongst friends hehe Originally Posted by ZeissFan
These days, I never worry if I don't win a camera. There's always another out there. I don't buy much (or as much), because as you can tell from this long, long post, I certainly have more than I need.
i've missed out on few lately--just not prepared to pay the cost--recently there was a old welta 9x12 plate camera here in Oz that i wanted but it went for something like $150 !!! should of been $45-50 tops--someone with 5 feedback bought it and bid like crazy through the whole thing--are they going to regret it down the track
ZF i have to admit this is much how thought as well so as a result my nich is the Welta... but every now and again.......i end up with an entire different range go figure!
oftheherd
Veteran
Chippy,
From your description, I take it you never use the mirrored or "press" finders. I can remember using them some, even on 9x12 type cameras.
BTW I just checked, my father's camera was a 13.5 cm lens, so I guess it really was a 9x12. My Leca is also. I think my Welta was also 13.5 cm but I don't recall for sure. I will have to remember what drawer it is in and dig it out and see. The Leca doens't have a bubble, and I don't think the Welta did either. I will get my father's camera out in a little bit if can break free, and photograph it better.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, as did Chippy, that as clunky as using a cut film holder might seem, it wasn't the only option in the day when these cameras were newer. They also had film packs that could be used. Film packs held more than one sheet of film, that was also thinner. If I recall, they held at least 8 and usually 12 sheets. That way if you wished to use the other finders, you didn't have to remove the back each time you took a photo. All you needed to do was pull the tab and bring another sheet to the fore.
Also, people didn't tend to fire off shots so quickly with these cameras. Not like with 35mm, and certainly not like some do with digital these days.
From your description, I take it you never use the mirrored or "press" finders. I can remember using them some, even on 9x12 type cameras.
BTW I just checked, my father's camera was a 13.5 cm lens, so I guess it really was a 9x12. My Leca is also. I think my Welta was also 13.5 cm but I don't recall for sure. I will have to remember what drawer it is in and dig it out and see. The Leca doens't have a bubble, and I don't think the Welta did either. I will get my father's camera out in a little bit if can break free, and photograph it better.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, as did Chippy, that as clunky as using a cut film holder might seem, it wasn't the only option in the day when these cameras were newer. They also had film packs that could be used. Film packs held more than one sheet of film, that was also thinner. If I recall, they held at least 8 and usually 12 sheets. That way if you wished to use the other finders, you didn't have to remove the back each time you took a photo. All you needed to do was pull the tab and bring another sheet to the fore.
Also, people didn't tend to fire off shots so quickly with these cameras. Not like with 35mm, and certainly not like some do with digital these days.
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Ikontafan
1936 Zeiss Super Ikonta C
ZeissFan
Veteran
In general, folding cameras are very durable. Look at it this way: These have survived 60 -- sometimes 70 or more -- years, often with the last quarter century being stored in closets, attics, garages and basements.
Now, because we own them, all of a sudden there's a concern that the cameras will deteriorate within the next month or year.
I have most of mine in my cabinet with glass doors. However, I also have them in a smaller cabinet in my bedroom, on a bookshelf, in plastic rolling bins, camera bags and large plastic bins.
I do periodically check them for dust, mold and to ensure that they're still working. I've had no problems, going on seven years and moving them from Pittsburgh to New Jersey to New York to Pittsburgh to New Jersey to Hong Kong to New Jersey to Pittsburgh.
Just use a reasonable amount of care, and they'll outlive all of us.
If you live in a humid area, I would get a big bunch (at least 50) of silica gel packs and keep them inside each cabinet or bag.
Now, because we own them, all of a sudden there's a concern that the cameras will deteriorate within the next month or year.
I have most of mine in my cabinet with glass doors. However, I also have them in a smaller cabinet in my bedroom, on a bookshelf, in plastic rolling bins, camera bags and large plastic bins.
I do periodically check them for dust, mold and to ensure that they're still working. I've had no problems, going on seven years and moving them from Pittsburgh to New Jersey to New York to Pittsburgh to New Jersey to Hong Kong to New Jersey to Pittsburgh.
Just use a reasonable amount of care, and they'll outlive all of us.
If you live in a humid area, I would get a big bunch (at least 50) of silica gel packs and keep them inside each cabinet or bag.
BrunoK
BrunoK
Mike,
As I uncover more of my dad's cameras and research them the more I keep coming to your pages.
I'm almost starting to think that there was some ' fine and interesting camera list ' to which you and my dad subscribed. ;>)
The Kodak Recomar is a fine little jewel that delighted my dad. I can still recall him displaying all the features and explaining why it had earned a special place in his collection. Now I just have to dind it to ascertain the model number.
As I uncover more of my dad's cameras and research them the more I keep coming to your pages.
I'm almost starting to think that there was some ' fine and interesting camera list ' to which you and my dad subscribed. ;>)
The Kodak Recomar is a fine little jewel that delighted my dad. I can still recall him displaying all the features and explaining why it had earned a special place in his collection. Now I just have to dind it to ascertain the model number.
I have the Kodak/Nagel Recomar '18' -- roughly the same camera as the many other plate cameras from that era.
Recomar '18' is 6x9.
Great camera. And the process with shooting is open hood, set shutter to "T," focus, close shutter (don't forget this step!), remove ground glass back, insert roll film back, remove dark slide, set shutter and aperture and take photo, wind to next frame and repeat.
Best used on a tripod and with a static scene. Probably not the best choice at a sporting event. Or to photograph live wildlife. Or children.
I also have a Recomar '33' (9x12) -- it needs a bit of work.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Personally, I have a couple of big glass-fronted lawyer's book cases and a converted glass-fronted wooden gun cabinet (shelves added). These keep the dust off of them and the wood absorbs excessive moisture (some is needed to prevent cracking). The ones with leather bellows have either been treated with a consolidant and then with silicone leather protectant (if in worn condition) or (if new) a silicone-based leather protectant. The treatment protects them from moisture. The ones with cellulose leatherette bellows are treated with silicone "shine sponges" and then rubbed down with Q-tips to both protect them from moisture and achieve the semi-gloss finish they had when original. I am a great believer in silicone protectants. The fabric interiors of the bellows is treated with Scotchguard. It isn't shiny, won't stiffen the cloth and make it brittle, and it makes the cloth very, very, moisture resistant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AaGXaXOcps
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RObert Budding
D'oh!
She's a beauty -- by the way, does anyone know why people love the Speed Graphics so much more than the Crown Graphics. The only real difference are the focal plane shutter and the higher weight/size. Since most of the lenses are (leaf-)shuttered anyway, why bother dealing with the higher weight/size?
By the way, just for the record, I have and love my Crown Graphic 23 (and have matching Kodak 80, 101 & 127 lenses, as well as a Schneider 65)...
I actually prefer the Crown Graphic myself - leaf shutter lenses flash sync at all speeds and it's lighter. I have the 4x5 version, and the rangefinder is perfectly accurate.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Press cameras were, generally speeking, 4x5 cameras that were designed for handheld use. The press jumped on these because you could get a full page photo with them that was detailed enough to print, because they were extremely versatile (beyond anything seen before), and because they had focal plane shutters that were capable of 1/1000 second shutter speeds (although these were rarely used). Anyway, you had your choice of three different shutters (inside a lens barrel, behind the lens, and focal plane) and each had five different viewfinder/focusing systems. There were also lots of accessories made for these that even further extended their versatility, like rollfilm backs.
Until this year I could have said I had only once in my life broken the $40 limit. I got another large format monorail this year and a digital camera though. It does take a lot of patience to adhere to the $40 rule though. You have to be prepared to wait a few years for some cameras.
i know what to do with the poor unloved Welta Sport that has the Spezial-Aplanet
Right now I am going through some film with it in order to see what it is best used for. When I develop it, then I will know.
I've missed out on a few too. Remember those recent ones I told you about? The ones where the bidding got absolutely ridiculous for beat-up but restorable cameras? One I thought would go for $15 went for $100+ (I stopped watching it at $100 and stopped bidding at $20). Well, there have been several more since then. It is getting ridiculous out there.
ZeissFan
Veteran
Bruno, it sounds like your father had some fine cameras in his collection. I'm glad that you're able to learn a bit more about them, and I hope that you'll be able to use and enjoy them.
chippy
foo was here
nah oftheherd i havnt ever used the Graphic press cameras (hey nobodys perfect LOL) actually i dont think i have any american made camera. i have mostly german made or i also use the old (1890's +) wooden english cameras (not counting hasselblad or later/modern japanese)...oh hang on i do have some 6x9 american cameras, they each have VERY specific uses--perhaps if i can take a few quick digital snap shots later with my horrible antique 2mb digital you may get a kick out of them
without seeing your Welta of course it could be any model..but if i had to guess then i would guess it is a Welta Rak which is the model below the Watson and sold in fairly large numbers (for a welta!). the Rak didnt have the red level, is single extension as opposed to double in the Watson, the Rak being the lower model of course didnt have the same lenses on offer as the Watson but of course still had some fine lens and shutter options. also the knobs are usually slightly smaller and depending on whether its a holtz or metal camera the struts are different too.
the Watson is comparable and very much the same in build quality and features (near identical really) as ZF's very nice looking Recomar 18 although his is bit newer.
funny you should mention the film packs. i have a few of the old metal cassettes for them and for ages after i first got them i could not figure out for the life of me how to make use of them. lol i tried putting different size film sheaths in them and all sorts--drove me nutty :bang:. until one day i bothered to read some instructions i found with one of my cameras showing how they are used ...of course they need the old film packs sold to go in them.. duh!
Ikontafan
1936 Zeiss Super Ikonta C
Thanks ,Mike and Fallis, for your insight and experience in storing and maintaining your folders. It puts my mind at ease and gives me some good ideas for my own situation.
I really appreciate all of the support forum members so generously give. RB
I really appreciate all of the support forum members so generously give. RB
FallisPhoto
Veteran
She's a beauty -- by the way, does anyone know why people love the Speed Graphics so much more than the Crown Graphics. The only real difference are the focal plane shutter and the higher weight/size. Since most of the lenses are (leaf-)shuttered anyway, why bother dealing with the higher weight/size?
By the way, just for the record, I have and love my Crown Graphic 23 (and have matching Kodak 80, 101 & 127 lenses, as well as a Schneider 65)...
Versatility. Speed graphics can use barrel lenses, behind the lens leaf shutters and non-shuttered lenses too.
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FallisPhoto
Veteran
Yes, but the Speed Graphic allows you to use leaf shutters, barrel shuttered lenses, and non-shuttered lenses. Press people preferred them because of their extreme versatility. Also, focal plane shutters are capable of faster shutter speeds. That last wasn't as big a deal as you'd think with the slow films of the times though.
Charles Woodhouse
Collector,User,Repairer.
I had Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta C CRF in 6 X 9 with an Opton Tessar and it was absolutely brilliant - a much better camera than I am a photographer, and I sold it! Damn!!
ZeissFan
Veteran
The one thing I would add: As much as possible, keep your cameras out of the sun.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
... unless they have fungus.
RObert Budding
D'oh!
I'm fine with the shutter speeds I get with leaf shutters. And the reduced complexity of the Crown compared to the Speed. Both are great cameras, but not everyone's needs are identical.